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US Senate Report on CIA Detention and Interrogation Program

intelligence.senate.gov

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Re: US Senate Report on CIA Detention and Interrogation Program

#341

Post by coldtea »

DanBC wrote: post #168
willscott wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The saving grace is that we have a country that was able to admit that it did this. For me, that's hope that we're still in a position to learn from our wrongs, and that the checks-and-balances are still somewhat in-tact.

It took a long time for the torture to be officially recognised -- we've had a lot of denial until now. And even now there will be people who say that this was too much, but a little bit of torture is necessary. Just look at what people were saying a out water boarding - "it's not really torture". How many detainees are still held without trial?

>Just look at what people were saying a out water boarding - "it's not really torture".

Let's put it this way: unless you're not horrified to have such a procedure happen to you, your wife, child, etc, it IS torture.

Re: US Senate Report on CIA Detention and Interrogation Program

#342

Post by NN88 »

RealGeek wrote: post #235
rdtsc wrote: post #25

> Interrogation techniques such as slaps and "wallings" (slamming detainees against a wall) were used in combination, frequently concurrent with sleep deprivation and nudity. Records do not support CIA representations that the CIA initially used an "an open, non-threatening approach," or that interrogations began with the "least coercive technique possible" and escalated to more coercive techniques only as necessary.…

Let's not forget, not all the detainees were terrorists. US promoted a reward program in middle east asking locals to turn in anyone with ties to terrorists. All they had to do was tell a name to US military, and collect reward for every name. Many locals turned in thousands of innocent people just to collect a reward. These people were immediately arrested and shipped off to Guantanamo Bay without any investigation.…

No.

But A LOT of them were.

Re: US Senate Report on CIA Detention and Interrogation Program

#343

Post by dragonwriter »

MisterMashable wrote: post #182

In 2004 a whole layer of top CIA officials were forced out. Defense Secretary Colin Powell resigned. Dick Cheney purged the CIA of personnel who might have served as some counterbalancing force. Once the good and reasonable people were gone (fired, forced to resign etc.), the CIA ran amok. If we look honestly at what went wrong, it's pretty clear how to fix it. Fire all the people that lied to Congress and broke the…

Colin Powell was never Defense Secretary, he was Secretary of State. In any case, as the report notes, the CIA was already running amok before 2004, so any purge then was not a necessary prerequisite for the CIA to run amok, though it might have removed a constraint that would have reigned things in sooner.

Re: US Senate Report on CIA Detention and Interrogation Program

#344

Post by waterlesscloud »

spacefight wrote: post #253
bradleyjg wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We haven't apologized, we haven't made restitution, and we sure as heck haven't prosecuted the guilty (as required by the convention against torture). I'm struggling to see any saving grace.

Right. And the only one sitting in prison so far is former CIA operative John Kiriakou who blew the whistle on the torture program. Go figure. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kiriakou

And the happened well into the Obama administration.

Re: US Senate Report on CIA Detention and Interrogation Program

#345

Post by dragonwriter »

waterlesscloud wrote: post #284
Nelson69 wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a step... It's worth something but it's not like there wasn't a ton of resistance to it. The question on my mind, were their CIA operatives that refused to comply with orders? Take the various police brutality cases, what's lost in the echochamber about it all is that these guys volunteer to be police, nobody is forced to, some of them want to carry guns, that really changes the situation a bit when an unarmed p…

There were CIA officers that disagreed, protested, and withdrew from the situations. It's mentioned in the report.

And if things like this become public without anyone being held accountable -- signalling public approval for the abuses -- that will happen less the next time.

Re: US Senate Report on CIA Detention and Interrogation Program

#346

Post by 7952 »

rayiner wrote: post #277
reitanqild wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh come on, be serious: Most of us would much rather prefer to be shot dead or blown up in a split second than being even slightly tortured and locked up indefinitely. If not it must be because we don't know what we are talking about.

Throwing water on someone and leaving them in a 59-degree room is worse than shooting them dead? Keeping someone awake until they hallucinate is worse than shooting them dead? Really? I can imagine torture that's worse than death. I don't think any of the things revealed in the article qualify. Which is precisely what I'm getting at. If you're not a pacifist and you think it's okay to kill people in war, I think you…

What gives you the right to decide that for other people? Objectively having your genitals cut off is much less bad than dying. But I know plenty of men who would rather take a bullet than feel a knife sliding into them. The methods used by the CIA are exactly like this; and that is entirely by design. Why else would you do these things if not to cause massive psychological pain?

Re: US Senate Report on CIA Detention and Interrogation Program

#347

Post by woah »

rayiner wrote: post #259
reitanqild wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question: Why did you post those messages? Just because they were supposed to be funny? (I wasn't expecting those messages from you?) (FWIW: You are not the first one I ask about this.)

You're probably too morally outraged by all this to appreciate the humor in the phrasing of that sentence.

Wow you really are a piece of work

Re: US Senate Report on CIA Detention and Interrogation Program

#348

Post by __d »

kilroy123 wrote: post #323
mark_l_watson wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a family member who was hooked on the TV show "24" which featured torture. I think that it is quite possible that there is some purposeful desensitization going on.

My little sister just got into with me on facebook about how it is perfectly ok to torture our enemies. That's just the last straw for me. I would never have someone in my life, family or not, who would think raping people is acceptable. This is even worse. Even our enemies shouldn't be raped/tortured.

But killing them is ok?

Re: US Senate Report on CIA Detention and Interrogation Program

#349

Post by dragonwriter »

rayiner wrote: post #254
DanBC wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know all these detainees were "captured on the battlefield"? Because we've been told that? By the same people who said we were not using extraordinary rendition and not using torture? I'm surprised that you think torture is not an atrocity. The US claims to be "giving the gift of democracy" and "spreading freedom". Ignoring international conventions on the rights of prisoners of war (and do not start the w…

> How do you know all these detainees were "captured on the battlefield"? By the same people who said we were not using extraordinary rendition and not using torture? Because if the CIA was just ignoring the rules, they wouldn't be trying to lawyer their way around what's "enhanced interrogation" versus "torture." They'd just be pulling out fingernails. > Ignoring international conventions on the rights of prisoners…

You fundamentally misunderstand the rationale behind the conventions, and particularly the parts of them that apply specifically in conflicts that are not conflicts between state parties (e.g., Common Article 3.)

Anyhow, there is also the Convention Against Torture isn't even related to conflict or POWs, but applies universally, and obliges parties to it (including the US) to prosecute (not merely avoid engaging in) torture, whoever does it, wherever they do it, and in whatever context they do it. Torturers are hostis humani generis, the common enemy of all mankind.

Re: US Senate Report on CIA Detention and Interrogation Program

#350

Post by gizmo686 »

afarrell wrote: post #227
Someone1234 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until the next 9/11 or Pearl Habour and then everyone just looks the other way for the next ten years. Japanese internment is still rarely talked about and in some states rarely taught in schools(!).

> rarely talked about I really wish there was a way for to accurately evaluate these statements. I learned about this by age 10 from my mother, it was mentioned multiple times in high school, it is occasionally referenced in conversation online and in person, and comes up on my Fort Minor pandora station about once every 4 hours of playtime. But I live in a liberal social circle that places a high value on learning h…

As another datapoint, the only time I learned about Japanese internment in school was in my high school Supreme Court elective.
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