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US Senate Report on CIA Detention and Interrogation Program

intelligence.senate.gov

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Re: US Senate Report on CIA Detention and Interrogation Program

#241

Post by DanBC »

rayiner wrote: post #220
lotharbot wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I understand (from talking to now very old Japanese-American men who were in the camps as young adults) it was unpleasant and caused significant hardship, but not even remotely similar to what's in this report. It's important to teach about what happened in those camps and to understand why they were wrong. Drawing inappropriate comparisons between those camps and the absolute atrocities in this report isn'…

The difference, of course, is that those in the internment camps were Americans, while most of these guys are terrorists captured on the battlefield. I do think the comparison is inappropriate, but internment was the atrocity, not this.

How do you know all these detainees were "captured on the battlefield"? Because we've been told that? By the same people who said we were not using extraordinary rendition and not using torture?

I'm surprised that you think torture is not an atrocity. The US claims to be "giving the gift of democracy" and "spreading freedom". Ignoring international conventions on the rights of prisoners of war (and do not start the weaselly bullshit about whether these people are POWs or not) doesn't seem to be a good way of liberating a nation.

Re: US Senate Report on CIA Detention and Interrogation Program

#242

Post by mikeash »

rayiner wrote: post #220
lotharbot wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I understand (from talking to now very old Japanese-American men who were in the camps as young adults) it was unpleasant and caused significant hardship, but not even remotely similar to what's in this report. It's important to teach about what happened in those camps and to understand why they were wrong. Drawing inappropriate comparisons between those camps and the absolute atrocities in this report isn'…

The difference, of course, is that those in the internment camps were Americans, while most of these guys are terrorists captured on the battlefield. I do think the comparison is inappropriate, but internment was the atrocity, not this.

In your view, it's OK to torture people as long as they're not American?

Re: US Senate Report on CIA Detention and Interrogation Program

#243

Post by AlyssaRowan »

Amorymeltzer wrote: post #55

The document has > TOP SECRET [blackbox] NOFORN on it. That's crossed out and UNCLASSIFIED is inserted, but what's that black box covering up? Is it another level of secret access so secret we can't know the name?

Sort of. Conventionally, it's the cover name of the information compartment. If we knew what that was, since we now know what it refers to because that's unclassified, it wouldn't provide an effective cover anymore.

Of course, that's still a bit silly. The CIA insisted they redact even the initials of the countries involved. Ridiculous. Well, country R is Romania, country P is Poland. There are two others, I think Country J may well be Jordan.

I think I would probably be completely OK with this report being leaked in its unredacted form, including names: I sadly doubt there's any other way justice will ever be done and these people will answer for their crimes against humanity.

Re: US Senate Report on CIA Detention and Interrogation Program

#244

Post by rqebmm »

colinbartlett wrote: post #23
Loughla wrote: post #10

Why do they insist on saying 'enhanced interrogation technique' instead of torture? Even when it obviously means torture: "Another senior CIA officer stated that COBALT was itself an enhanced interrogation technique." When talking about a physical place. That is so blatant word replacement that I find it hard to take it seriously.

I think you already know the answer to this. They do this for the same reason that when cops shoot civilians they don't say "Then Officer Smith shot the assailant". They say "Then there was an officer-involved shooting.": To use language as a tool to manipulate the viewpoint of the public.

except, "Officer Smith shot the assailant" is more manipulative of the listener's viewpoint than the actor-neutral phrasing "there was a shooting and Officer Smith was involved"

Re: US Senate Report on CIA Detention and Interrogation Program

#245

Post by [deleted] »

mikeash wrote: post #239
rayiner wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These same detainees were subsequently placed in rooms with temperatures ranging from 59 to 80 degrees Fahrenheit. Oh the horror of room temperature.

Is there a name for the argumentative tactic of singling out the weakest thing a person said, then exaggerating it into a straw man and arguing against it, while ignoring everything else? Whatever it's called, you're not fooling anybody.

[deleted]

Re: US Senate Report on CIA Detention and Interrogation Program

#246

Post by Spooky23 »

rayiner wrote: post #238
mark_l_watson wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a family member who was hooked on the TV show "24" which featured torture. I think that it is quite possible that there is some purposeful desensitization going on.

I've heard this theory. It's not really consistent with the fact that "24" was a torture-fest from the first season, aired before the enhanced interrogation stuff really got going. I was in college at the time, and we loved the show. You don't need much "purposeful desensitizing" to convince a bunch of 20-something guys it's okay to torture terrorists.

You're not the target audience. The point was to make sure that a 48-year old pasty accountant and his kids are de-sensitized.

Re: US Senate Report on CIA Detention and Interrogation Program

#247

Post by disposition2 »

debacle wrote: post #49

Fellow parents, how do you teach or plan to teach your kids about this? I was discussing this with my son last night, but I really couldn't explain to him the prejudice and fear that people use to justify these types of acts, or the "otherness" that the perpetrators try to construct around the victims in the media. It's just not something he's experienced yet. There's no way to put it into context.

I was just wondering about this in relation to those who were advocating for not releasing the report at all. I fail to see any difference between this stance and telling a child to not admit their guilt of wrong doing because they will have to actually suffer the consequences of their actions.

Re: US Senate Report on CIA Detention and Interrogation Program

#248

Post by reitanqild »

[deleted] wrote: post #245
mikeash wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a name for the argumentative tactic of singling out the weakest thing a person said, then exaggerating it into a straw man and arguing against it, while ignoring everything else? Whatever it's called, you're not fooling anybody.

[deleted]

Honest question: Why did you post those messages? Just because they were supposed to be funny? (I wasn't expecting those messages from you?)

(FWIW: You are not the first one I ask about this.)

Re: US Senate Report on CIA Detention and Interrogation Program

#249

Post by spacefight »

cryoshon wrote: post #150
user24 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The list goes on. It sure does. > At DETENTION SITE COBALT, detainees were often held down, naked, on a tarp on the floor, with the tarp pulled up around them to form a makeshift tub, while cold or refrigerated water was poured on them. Others were hosed down repeatedly while they were shackled naked, in the standing sleep deprivation position. These same detainees were subsequently placed in rooms with temperatures…

This is our government, and these acts are done in the name of our safety. If you are not interested in someone torturing on your behalf, you need to speak out, and loudly.

It's not only your government, it's also the staff working at the military/industrial complex. It's also other governments and their staff who have been pribed/coerced to help them with their plan.

It's people. It's people among us.

It's sickening.

Re: US Senate Report on CIA Detention and Interrogation Program

#250

Post by lhc- »

leroy_masochist wrote: post #210
mikeash wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Then again, these guys did not get rolled up for signing too loud in church. They have valuable intel in their heads." Why does terrorism frighten people so much that they're willing to throw away basic principles like "innocent until proven guilty"? Honest question. I see comment after comment after comment in this thread that indicates the commenters are unbelievably frightened of terrorism, to the extent that the…

> Why does terrorism frighten people so much that they're willing to throw away basic principles like "innocent until proven guilty"? Great question, and one we should always keep in mind. The death toll from terrorism on US soil since 9/11 is indeed very low. That said, the people plotting against us are intelligent and adaptive and wish to do us harm. If they succeed, they might destroy the free society which we've…

I feel like they've already done that far more effectively than they probably dreamed. Look at what's happened to the US after 9/11 and tell me we're still adhering to our principles and possess any moral high ground in the world. This report is a pretty obvious indication that the powers that be have given up on following the rules.
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