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US Senate Report on CIA Detention and Interrogation Program

intelligence.senate.gov

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Re: US Senate Report on CIA Detention and Interrogation Program

#201

Post by dragonwriter »

andyjohnson0 wrote: post #85
Amorymeltzer wrote: post #55

The document has > TOP SECRET [blackbox] NOFORN on it. That's crossed out and UNCLASSIFIED is inserted, but what's that black box covering up? Is it another level of secret access so secret we can't know the name?

On the basis of googling "top secret noforn filetype:pdf", it seems that the convention is for the redacted text to be some kind of source classification (eg. "SI" for Signals Intelligence or "COMINT" for Communication Interception. I have no idea what it would be in the case of this report, but my guess would be that it was redacted to avoid ambiguity given that "Unclassified" is stamped next to it, rather than beca…

The classification is not secret, but the intelligence sources themselves likely remain classified, including the identification of the kind of sources supporting the information in the now-declassified executive summary.

Even vague descriptions of intelligence sources are often treated as more sensitive than the information derived from those sources.

Re: US Senate Report on CIA Detention and Interrogation Program

#202

Post by jstrate »

Omniusaspirer wrote: post #123
jstrate wrote: post #43

Read almost half of it today and nothing really surprising. Still waiting for the Taliban, Al Qaida, and IS interrogation program reports though.

If we can't hold ourselves to a higher standard than religious terrorist groups then something is very wrong with this country.

Can you really not make a distinction between cold shower and televised beheading/castration. I agree there is something very wrong with this country if that is the case. I've spent enough Karma today.

Re: US Senate Report on CIA Detention and Interrogation Program

#203

Post by d23 »

anigbrowl wrote: post #167
cryoshon wrote: post #124

A few things: The Republicans have issued a rebuttal. I assume this means they support torture. I hope this dissuades some of their remaining voter base from continuing to support them. Clapper has issued a rebuttal, claiming that the report isn't neutral. I assume he also supports torture. Not sure that he has any credibility left after being caught on the record lying to congress, but whatever. The White House atte…

The White House attempted to keep this report from coming out. That's inaccurate. Kerry asked for a delay in its release; as Secretary of State, responsible for US embassies around the world, it's his job to draw attention to the risk factors. All reports I've read prior to the release said that both the President and Vice President were strongly in favor of publication. Ultimately the choice to classify or declassif…

Anybody got any sources on either side of the points about the current administration?

Re: US Senate Report on CIA Detention and Interrogation Program

#204

Post by kiiski »

ceejayoz wrote: post #144
kiiski wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was under the impression that in the War of 1812, USA was the agressor. Wikipedia seems to also support this view. Is that not correct, or do americans just have their own differing viewpoint?

It's rarely that simple, and I'm not sure what Wikipedia article you're reading. Impressment - kidnapping of American sailors into British naval service - was a pretty big issue. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origins_of_the_War_of_1812

I didn't mean to comment on whether the war was justified or not, but simply that it was USA that attacked (and so the war doesn't quite qualify as an attack against America).

Re: US Senate Report on CIA Detention and Interrogation Program

#206

Post by Nelson69 »

willscott wrote: post #61
rdtsc wrote: post #25

> Interrogation techniques such as slaps and "wallings" (slamming detainees against a wall) were used in combination, frequently concurrent with sleep deprivation and nudity. Records do not support CIA representations that the CIA initially used an "an open, non-threatening approach," or that interrogations began with the "least coercive technique possible" and escalated to more coercive techniques only as necessary.…

The saving grace is that we have a country that was able to admit that it did this. For me, that's hope that we're still in a position to learn from our wrongs, and that the checks-and-balances are still somewhat in-tact.

It's a step... It's worth something but it's not like there wasn't a ton of resistance to it.

The question on my mind, were their CIA operatives that refused to comply with orders? Take the various police brutality cases, what's lost in the echochamber about it all is that these guys volunteer to be police, nobody is forced to, some of them want to carry guns, that really changes the situation a bit when an unarmed person ends up dead. The CIA has the same problem here, I know there are people in the CIA that "want to kick some terrorist ass." I'd feel better if there were some outspoken CIA operatives who were coming out saying that they refused to take part. If not, it's not just an ugly stain but the whole organization is broken, they have no respect for law..

Re: US Senate Report on CIA Detention and Interrogation Program

#207

Post by rayiner »

user24 wrote: post #87
rdtsc wrote: post #25

> Interrogation techniques such as slaps and "wallings" (slamming detainees against a wall) were used in combination, frequently concurrent with sleep deprivation and nudity. Records do not support CIA representations that the CIA initially used an "an open, non-threatening approach," or that interrogations began with the "least coercive technique possible" and escalated to more coercive techniques only as necessary.…

>The list goes on. It sure does. > At DETENTION SITE COBALT, detainees were often held down, naked, on a tarp on the floor, with the tarp pulled up around them to form a makeshift tub, while cold or refrigerated water was poured on them. Others were hosed down repeatedly while they were shackled naked, in the standing sleep deprivation position. These same detainees were subsequently placed in rooms with temperatures…

> These same detainees were subsequently placed in rooms with temperatures ranging from 59 to 80 degrees Fahrenheit.

Oh the horror of room temperature.

Re: US Senate Report on CIA Detention and Interrogation Program

#208

Post by DanBC »

Fuzzwah wrote: post #70
andy_ppp wrote: post #38

An incredibly thoughtful and non provoking introduction to the document from Dianne Feinstein. This is a good thing and anything that can help America step back from her actions in future and take pause rather than extreme and counter productive measures is a good thing. I hope some day that just like the well tested evidence that torture doesn't work it'll be shown that mass surveillance also gives next to nothing t…

Just to clarify are you using the word "her" in this section: "America step back from her actions in future" To mean: "America step back from the actions of the US government in future" ?

Yes, sometimes people use "her" to talk about a country. It is an unusual use though.

Re: US Senate Report on CIA Detention and Interrogation Program

#209

Post by disposition2 »

sd8f9iu wrote: post #199
cryoshon wrote: post #124

A few things: The Republicans have issued a rebuttal. I assume this means they support torture. I hope this dissuades some of their remaining voter base from continuing to support them. Clapper has issued a rebuttal, claiming that the report isn't neutral. I assume he also supports torture. Not sure that he has any credibility left after being caught on the record lying to congress, but whatever. The White House atte…

>"The Republicans have issued a rebuttal. I assume this means they support torture." >"Clapper has issued a rebuttal, claiming that the report isn't neutral. I assume he also supports torture." >"The White House attempted to keep this report from coming out...I assume that the White House supports torture..." Politics is a dirty, complex game. If you treat every news event as black and white like this, you will form…

This is black and white, unless you have no morals. We tortured people and now some people are defending those actions.

Re: US Senate Report on CIA Detention and Interrogation Program

#210

Post by leroy_masochist »

mikeash wrote: post #169
leroy_masochist wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't say that any of these techniques are "basic/standard", and I used to work in the field. You can get plenty of information out of someone without laying a finger on them. In my opinion the question is the extent to which it's OK to play with people's psychology through isolation and misinformation, while still giving them 3 hots and a cot. The important thing to note here is that you can still damage people…

"Then again, these guys did not get rolled up for signing too loud in church. They have valuable intel in their heads." Why does terrorism frighten people so much that they're willing to throw away basic principles like "innocent until proven guilty"? Honest question. I see comment after comment after comment in this thread that indicates the commenters are unbelievably frightened of terrorism, to the extent that the…

> Why does terrorism frighten people so much that they're willing to throw away basic principles like "innocent until proven guilty"?

Great question, and one we should always keep in mind. The death toll from terrorism on US soil since 9/11 is indeed very low. That said, the people plotting against us are intelligent and adaptive and wish to do us harm. If they succeed, they might destroy the free society which we've built for ourselves.

Put another way, I'm scared of the physical consequences of a nuclear weapon going off in midtown Manhattan and even more scared of what would happen to our society in the wake of it. You think we'd be having these conversations about which techniques may or may not be torture if there were half a million dead in NYC and the entire tri-state region were irradiated?

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