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US Senate Report on CIA Detention and Interrogation Program

intelligence.senate.gov

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Re: US Senate Report on CIA Detention and Interrogation Program

#141

Post by tosser-001 »

jaimebuelta wrote: post #139
tosser-001 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is different about the 9/11 attacks that legitimizes the use of torture, when you would not support it against soldiers or other criminals? They had demonstrated the practice of mass killings of innocent civilians and expressed the desire to continue to do so. > If you would endorse torture to prevent another 9/11, why wouldn't you also endorse torture to prevent, say, another Hiroshima? Well, setting aside th…

Let me refresh one of the key point of the report (sorry about the caps) TORTURE IS NOT EFFECTIVE This is hardly news, it has been known for a long time. CIA knew it before 9/11

Again, that to me is the crux also. If it is not effective than there is no justification. If it is, which the CIA claims it was, then I have no ethical problem with it in this limited situation

Re: US Senate Report on CIA Detention and Interrogation Program

#142

Post by charonn0 »

leroy_masochist wrote: post #102
sliverstorm wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of these things are clearly off the deep end. But some of them, especially threats, seem like pretty basic/standard interrogation... There are many techniques, but it seems like we have forgotten it is fundamentally manipulative and abusive. I mean, we are surprised to find that threats are used? What?

I wouldn't say that any of these techniques are "basic/standard", and I used to work in the field. You can get plenty of information out of someone without laying a finger on them. In my opinion the question is the extent to which it's OK to play with people's psychology through isolation and misinformation, while still giving them 3 hots and a cot. The important thing to note here is that you can still damage people…

> Then again, these guys did not get rolled up for signing too loud in church. They have valuable intel in their heads.

According to the report, "Of the 119 known detainees, at least 26 were wrongfully held and did not meet the detention standard in the September 2001 Memorandum of Notification (MON). These included an "intellectually challenged" man whose CIA detention was used solely as leverage to get a family member to provide information, two individuals who were intelligence sources for foreign liaison services and were former CIA sources, and two individuals whom the CIA assessed to be connected to al-Qa'ida based solely on information fabricated by a CIA detainee subjected to the CIA's enhanced interrogation techniques.

Re: US Senate Report on CIA Detention and Interrogation Program

#144

Post by ceejayoz »

kiiski wrote: post #118
koops wrote: post #42

Falsehood right in the forward: "the largest attack against the American homeland in our history". War of 1812?

I was under the impression that in the War of 1812, USA was the agressor. Wikipedia seems to also support this view. Is that not correct, or do americans just have their own differing viewpoint?

It's rarely that simple, and I'm not sure what Wikipedia article you're reading. Impressment - kidnapping of American sailors into British naval service - was a pretty big issue. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origins_of_the_War_of_1812

Re: US Senate Report on CIA Detention and Interrogation Program

#145

Post by Cushman »

dragonwriter wrote: post #72
Loughla wrote: post #10

Why do they insist on saying 'enhanced interrogation technique' instead of torture? Even when it obviously means torture: "Another senior CIA officer stated that COBALT was itself an enhanced interrogation technique." When talking about a physical place. That is so blatant word replacement that I find it hard to take it seriously.

> Why do they insist on saying 'enhanced interrogation technique' instead of torture? "Enhanced interrogation technique" is an uncontroversial, accurate factual description. "Torture" is a conclusion of law applied to the facts that, while there is overwhelming reason to accept that the conclusion is valid for the program as a whole, and many of the specific instances in particular, does not necessarily apply to all…

Are we noticing the irony of using the term "uncontroversial" to answer controversy?

Re: US Senate Report on CIA Detention and Interrogation Program

#146

Post by Someone1234 »

ZanyProgrammer wrote: post #36

Too bad this only covers the CIA and not the military. I was a 97E (interrogator) in the Army during both Bush administrations, who was lucky to never be deployed. I bet the military also has lots and lots of sins that need to be uncovered.

If I may ask, were you trained in the stuff discussed in this report?

Re: US Senate Report on CIA Detention and Interrogation Program

#147

Post by tormeh »

at-fates-hands wrote: post #104
tdees40 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who has said sorry? Cheney? Bush? Rice? The people who put this system into place continue to defend it and have suffered no consequences.

Before you get on your Liberal high horse, you might want to check yourself. Extraordinary Rendition began under Clinton: https://www.aclu.org/national-security/fact-sheet-extraordin... Beginning in the early 1990s and continuing to this day, the Central Intelligence Agency, together with other U.S. government agencies, has utilized an intelligence-gathering program involving the transfer of foreign nationals suspect…

Yeah, but right wing media says it's right.

Re: US Senate Report on CIA Detention and Interrogation Program

#148

Post by karmartyr »

Two-thousand nine hundred and seventy seven. That's how many people were burned alive, crushed to death, forced to jump off the towers. They deserve justice. And if that means pushing a terrorist against a wall or depriving sleep then so be it.

I mean lighten up people, the hazing at my frat 30 years ago was almost worse than half this stuff.

Re: US Senate Report on CIA Detention and Interrogation Program

#149

Post by stefantalpalaru »

snarfy wrote: post #86

You'll get more accurate information through tricks and false friendships than torture. There is no justification for torture. None. It's not even a good tool regardless of the morality.

>There is no justification for torture. None.

- revenge

- increasing the torturer's loyalty for the organization (how many torturers are whistleblowers?)

- showing your superiors how far you are willing to go in pursuit of information

- terrorizing the enemies you haven't captured yet

- strengthening the connections with subordinate countries (Romania hosted secret torture prisons and bribes where given to officials. Who there dares to challenge the imposed economical partners or foreign policies? Or the visa requirements still in place in a country that hosts US military bases on its territory for that matter.)

Re: US Senate Report on CIA Detention and Interrogation Program

#150

Post by cryoshon »

user24 wrote: post #87
rdtsc wrote: post #25

> Interrogation techniques such as slaps and "wallings" (slamming detainees against a wall) were used in combination, frequently concurrent with sleep deprivation and nudity. Records do not support CIA representations that the CIA initially used an "an open, non-threatening approach," or that interrogations began with the "least coercive technique possible" and escalated to more coercive techniques only as necessary.…

>The list goes on. It sure does. > At DETENTION SITE COBALT, detainees were often held down, naked, on a tarp on the floor, with the tarp pulled up around them to form a makeshift tub, while cold or refrigerated water was poured on them. Others were hosed down repeatedly while they were shackled naked, in the standing sleep deprivation position. These same detainees were subsequently placed in rooms with temperatures…

This is our government, and these acts are done in the name of our safety.

If you are not interested in someone torturing on your behalf, you need to speak out, and loudly.

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