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Uber banned from operating in Indian capital after rape accusation

reuters.com

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Re: Uber banned from operating in Indian capital after rape accusation

#31

Post by mike_hearn »

RealGeek wrote: post #28
GrinningFool wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No sexual offenses From the article: "Uber, which had employed the driver even though he had been arrested on allegations of sexual assault three years ago" THe implication there is that he had not been convicted of any offense - which means no sexual offense was [in the eyes of the law...] committed. I'm of two minds on this. On the one hand yeah, he was arrested for it and convicted or not, that's probably a risk U…

> The other side of that an accusation or suspicion isn't a reasonable basis on which to ruin someone's employability. Would you marry or co-found a company with someone who was charged with a crime like murder, rape, robbery or fraud; but was let go after serving 7 months in prison because of insufficient evidence which could not meet the standard of "beyond reasonable doubt". Unfortunately, rape cases are very hard…

Unfortunately, rape cases are very hard to convict (even in US) because police & prosecutors does not take rape investigations seriously.

They are hard to convict because usually there are no witnesses and it turns into he said / she said. I see a lot of people wishing it were not so, but the legal system has severe punishments and thus a high bar for conviction (or that's how it's supposed to be).

Re: Uber banned from operating in Indian capital after rape accusation

#32

Post by mike_hearn »

RealGeek wrote: post #21
pyrois wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't quite understand the wording on the website. The article said the driver was acquitted; would a proper screening still have disqualified him, given his acquittal? Quick disclaimer: clearly, given what you said, Uber needs to dramatically change how it operates in India, and thorough background checks are hugely important for a commercial transport service. I'm just wondering if it would have been enough to pr…

If Uber didn't hire this driver, this crime could have been prevented. Delhi laws require all cabs to have an onboard GPS: "The vehicle must be fitted with GPS/GPRS based tracking devises which must be in constant communication with the Central Control unit while the vehicles is on duty." Uber didn't even have an on-board always on GPS, their only way to track is through mobile app; which the driver conveniently turn…

How would that have achieved anything?

You want a Minority Report-esque flying police department that drops themselves onto the road if the driver veers off route?

Re: Uber banned from operating in Indian capital after rape accusation

#33

Post by awinder »

GrinningFool wrote: post #17
RealGeek wrote: post #10

Uber is not being banned just because of this rape incident. Uber did not following Indian laws & Delhi transport regulations, and operated illegally under the radar. Before this incident, Delhi Government was not aware about how Uber operated. This incident prompted Indian authorities to investigate the operations of Uber. Uber's stance is that we are not a taxi company, we are an app company; so we do not need to f…

No sexual offenses From the article: "Uber, which had employed the driver even though he had been arrested on allegations of sexual assault three years ago" THe implication there is that he had not been convicted of any offense - which means no sexual offense was [in the eyes of the law...] committed. I'm of two minds on this. On the one hand yeah, he was arrested for it and convicted or not, that's probably a risk U…

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/10/delhi-rape-one-conv...

Of 706 reported rape cases, 1 lead to an actual conviction. So you have an under-reported category of crime which is irregularly prosecuted. There's obvious ethical issues with denying jobs to people based on accusation rather than conviction, but in a society with a broken justice system surrounding that, there's ethical dilemmas no matter how you slice it. There's also a serious question about how you rate the ethical utility of someone not being able to get a job in a specific area, versus possible endangerment of someone's life.

Re: Uber banned from operating in Indian capital after rape accusation

#34

Post by edgyswingset »

RealGeek wrote: post #13
n0body wrote: post #5

i'm not sure why it's Uber's fault. in the uk, Uber drivers are all registered taxi drivers, because of regulations. it's not Uber's fault that the indian market is not as strictly regulated, and that one of their drivers did this. Not that i'm saying it's ok, it's not. but uber seems to be catching a lot of flak for things they haven't done. sure they probably could have done more to prevent it, but so could the gov…

Uber hired drivers in India who does not even have a valid Delhi Transport commercial driver license required for all cab drivers in Delhi. Edit: > and the amount of rape happening in india is crazy, the government needs to do something about that, something more than blaming uber. Do you know that more women are raped every year in UK & US than in India? You hear a lot more about rapes in India because Indians are m…

One of the issues in India right now is non-compliance by the police. Those statistics, while certainly valid for cases we can prove, don't tell the whole story.

Re: Uber banned from operating in Indian capital after rape accusation

#35

Post by Someone1234 »

n0body wrote: post #5

i'm not sure why it's Uber's fault. in the uk, Uber drivers are all registered taxi drivers, because of regulations. it's not Uber's fault that the indian market is not as strictly regulated, and that one of their drivers did this. Not that i'm saying it's ok, it's not. but uber seems to be catching a lot of flak for things they haven't done. sure they probably could have done more to prevent it, but so could the gov…

You clearly didn't read the article.

> it's not Uber's fault that the indian market is not as strictly regulated, and that one of their drivers did this.

According to the article this driver would be banned from getting a taxi permit under Indian law. Uber didn't follow Indian law.

Re: Uber banned from operating in Indian capital after rape accusation

#36

Post by ceejayoz »

RealGeek wrote: post #13
n0body wrote: post #5

i'm not sure why it's Uber's fault. in the uk, Uber drivers are all registered taxi drivers, because of regulations. it's not Uber's fault that the indian market is not as strictly regulated, and that one of their drivers did this. Not that i'm saying it's ok, it's not. but uber seems to be catching a lot of flak for things they haven't done. sure they probably could have done more to prevent it, but so could the gov…

Uber hired drivers in India who does not even have a valid Delhi Transport commercial driver license required for all cab drivers in Delhi. Edit: > and the amount of rape happening in india is crazy, the government needs to do something about that, something more than blaming uber. Do you know that more women are raped every year in UK & US than in India? You hear a lot more about rapes in India because Indians are m…

> Do you know that more women are raped every year in UK & US than in India?

Bullshit. Your link states "does not include cases of rape which go unreported, which are not recorded, and does not account for differing definitions between countries".

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/01/07...

> Three-fourths of the perpetrators of India's 24,206 rapes in 2011 are still at large, and that's not even including the rapes that go unreported, which are thought to be the majority of cases. The women and girls who do report being raped can sometimes face antipathy or outright hostility from police.

Re: Uber banned from operating in Indian capital after rape accusation

#37

Post by tomp »

kyledrake wrote: post #26
GrinningFool wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No sexual offenses From the article: "Uber, which had employed the driver even though he had been arrested on allegations of sexual assault three years ago" THe implication there is that he had not been convicted of any offense - which means no sexual offense was [in the eyes of the law...] committed. I'm of two minds on this. On the one hand yeah, he was arrested for it and convicted or not, that's probably a risk U…

While I would often usually with you, the nature of sexual assault is that even in "developed" countries, it is very hard to convict people for committing these offenses, and very often the accused walk. I can only imagine how much worse this is in countries that are less than friendly to women (I am not saying that India is better or worse, I don't know). I don't think it would have hurt them to err on the side of c…

> I don't think it would have hurt them to err on the side of caution on this one.

Erring "on the side of caution" in this case basically means denying someone a job, a livelihood, based on mere allegations that anyone can make. If you strictly enforce this (or even harsher variants, e.g. "no men sitting next to children on planes"), you make it very simple to ruin someone's life.

Re: Uber banned from operating in Indian capital after rape accusation

#38

Post by trendroid »

RealGeek wrote: post #13
n0body wrote: post #5

i'm not sure why it's Uber's fault. in the uk, Uber drivers are all registered taxi drivers, because of regulations. it's not Uber's fault that the indian market is not as strictly regulated, and that one of their drivers did this. Not that i'm saying it's ok, it's not. but uber seems to be catching a lot of flak for things they haven't done. sure they probably could have done more to prevent it, but so could the gov…

Uber hired drivers in India who does not even have a valid Delhi Transport commercial driver license required for all cab drivers in Delhi. Edit: > and the amount of rape happening in india is crazy, the government needs to do something about that, something more than blaming uber. Do you know that more women are raped every year in UK & US than in India? You hear a lot more about rapes in India because Indians are m…

Very conveniently you have left this bit from that article you cited :

'It does not include cases of rape which go unreported, which are not recorded, and does not account for differing definitions between countries.'

This is why you see such a huge difference.

> You hear a lot more about rapes in India because Indians are more outraged towards rape than Americans & British.

Wait, wat?

Re: Uber banned from operating in Indian capital after rape accusation

#39

Post by [deleted] »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #27
RealGeek wrote: post #10

Uber is not being banned just because of this rape incident. Uber did not following Indian laws & Delhi transport regulations, and operated illegally under the radar. Before this incident, Delhi Government was not aware about how Uber operated. This incident prompted Indian authorities to investigate the operations of Uber. Uber's stance is that we are not a taxi company, we are an app company; so we do not need to f…

Very true. If the Indian government were to shut down modes of transportation because of drivers engaging in rape, then you'd never see a rickshaw on the streets. http://indianexpress.com/article/cities/kolkata/woman-gangra... http://www.ndtv.com/article/cities/delhi-13-year-old-girl-al... I've spoken with one woman since this incident. She stills considers radio cabs (taxi4sure, specifically) safer than rickshaws or…

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