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Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

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Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#531

Post by jacquesm »

tzs wrote: post #523
jacquesm wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is absolutely true but even in the present Microsoft has anything but clean hands: http://euobserver.com/political/125868 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_Ventures http://www.networkworld.com/article/2466540/software/munich-... And on and on.

What in the third reference was intended to show unclean hands?

MS coincidentially moved their headquarters to Muenchen.

http://www.eversheds.com/global/en/what/articles/index.page?...

Of course that has absolutely nothing to do with Muenchen switching back to MS.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#532

Post by [deleted] »

orbitur wrote: post #405
OWaz wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seeing comments like this “I'll never switch back to MS for what they've done in the past” always reminds me of this post from Hanselman http://www.hanselman.com/blog/MicrosoftKilledMyPappy.aspx

No one else seems to be complaining about it, so it may just be me: Your link just drops me at the front page of his blog. Searching for it through Google leads to a result, but clicking on that link also takes me to the front page. Is there a mirror?

[deleted]

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#533

Post by btb »

useerup wrote: post #518
archagon wrote: post #7

Does this mean that Mono will no longer be necessary for cross-platform C# use?

Mono (the code) and .NET Core will merge (per Scott Hanselmann) Microsoft will (in partnership with Mono the project) ensure that .NET core and server stacks run on Linux and OS X. They've just demonstrated deploying an ASP.NET MVC5 application on Linux, running inside a (Linux) Docker container and being remotely debugged from Visual Studio on Windows. Which seems to indicate that they are already pretty far down th…

Would love to see that demonstration, do you have a link for that?

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#534

Post by mpyne »

jacquesm wrote: post #455
danielweber wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know people who are pissed because Microsoft bundled in their own TCP/IP stack, which killed the companies that were selling TCP/IP stacks for Windows. When I ask them "can you imagine any OS delivered today without that bundled in?" they change the subject.

Network support has been an OS feature since before Microsoft even existed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethernet http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft Yes, there are people that probably would have preferred Peter Tattam's company to be bought by MS. (It was shareware, see thread here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2282875 ). But it definitely wasn't an obligation. Very few would argue that an OS has to have…

An OS doesn't have to have a file browser either, yet no one cried antitrust when Windows 95 bundled Windows Explorer instead of forcing people to buy Norton Commander.

This whole argument is kind of silly anyways since it's leaving out intent, which is a very important contextual part of evaluating the action of a person or entity. Seeing emails showing MS trying to deliberately get web developers hooked on a "more standards-compliant" IE and then locking those same devs in is a much different thing than MS honestly wanting people to have a decent default software base to go with Windows, even if both strategies end up in practice with "IE 4 preinstalled".

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#536

Post by jbooth »

ssmoot wrote: post #520
jbooth wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You find C# harder than this? trait SeqLike[+A, +Repr] extends Any with IterableLike[A, Repr] with GenSeqLike[A, Repr] with Parallelizable[A, ParSeq[A]] { self => or def :+[B >: A, That](elem: B)(implicit bf: CanBuildFrom[Repr, B, That]): That

If you want to make a compelling argument to anyone that actually knows Scala, you need to drop the idea you can make it with scala.collections. Find another altar. This is a complete non-issue for the day-to-day Scala developer. Outside of some pretty extreme examples (scalaz maybe), I don't think I've actually ever seen someone else's source that implemented a custom collection. And you're purposefully trying to co…

Personally, I view the collections library as a showcase for how that language works when you're designing an API to be used for 3rd parties. If it's incomprehensible, that worries me.

If the collections API is purposely trying to confuse people, blame the Scala team, not me.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#537

Post by sanderjd »

JeremyMorgan wrote: post #473
shmerl wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Developers need to start looking more seriously at C#/.Net. I don't think they need to. They might if they have some particular need in it, but there are way more interesting things to learn if you are interested in something new, like Rust of example.

Rust is neat. Great for hobby stuff. But it hasn't even reached 1.0, and I highly doubt you're going to get enterprises to bet their infrastructure on it.

Yeah certainly not yet, but some enterprises bet their infrastructure on C++, and I think Rust has a real chance of being competitive in that arena in the long run.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#538

Post by jbooth »

bad_user wrote: post #461
jbooth wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that Option types are great, so great that I'm happy to work in a much 'weaker' language, use option types, and solve 90% of the problems that more 'theoretically robust' languages address with none of their downsides. As far as not understanding how awesome immutable data structure are.. I'd take a step back before you make assumptions about what other people understand. Do you know anything about cache hier…

> Do you know anything about cache hierarchy and memory models on modern CPUs? Yes I do. Worked 3 years on a soft real-time system with massive load, profiled the shit out of everything. There's an interesting discussion we could have about when immutable data-structures work best, when they've got problems and when it doesn't matter, especially given the extra benefits in dealing with accidental complexity. This isn…

Well, that's good, sorry for asking. I've had a lot of people point at the big-0 notation of that linked-list append and tell me that it's faster than an ArrayList append on average. Usually this is right after telling me that "I just don't get it" with immutable collections. So I hope you can see why I'd react that way.

As I'm sure you know, when it comes to real-world situations, reducing inter-thread communication and isolating anything mutable is the key concern. That's why I find immutable wrappers that mock mutability to be a bit of a sideshow. You shouldn't have read contention with locking in the first place unless it's for a very good reason.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#539

Post by katbyte »

jpgvm wrote: post #327
aerique wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What languages have you got experience with that you feel C# is the best language you have worked with? And what makes it such a good language for you?

Generics, Partial Classes, awesome Reflection API, Lambda syntax, LINQ, C/C++ compatibility, async/await, concurrency primitives, etc. I have worked with prettier languages, for instance I have picked up Haskell recently, I have also worked with faster languages, C was my forte for many years and I have worked with languages in the GSD category like Ruby and Python. C# is appealing not because of some feature that it…

I'd like to add extension methods & default parameters to your list. Being able to extend any object with new methods has made programming in C# much more pleasurable then most languages I've used.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#540

Post by jacquesm »

300bps wrote: post #465
jacquesm wrote: post #77

It's funny how Nadella has moved the needle more for developers in 9 months than Ballmer did in the last decade or so, and all that without running around like a madman too. Pretty good. I'll never switch back to MS for what they've done in the past but it is nice to see them try hard to become a nicer player in the software eco-system. Google and Apple need some other party to keep them sharp, it might as well be MS…

I'm not sure if there is any topic I am passionate enough about to post 22+ comments on a single HN news story about. You must really, really dislike Microsoft.

Actually I though my initial comment was quite nice and reasonable. I'm genuinely happy that MS chose to opensource this code and I really hope that they will continue down this path. So no, I don't dislike them that much (no more than Apple or Facebook), I just won't use their products.
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