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Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

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Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#401

Post by alkonaut »

I have been working with .NET for 11 years since 1.0beta (On the same application, i.e. have been continously pushing a massive codebase through every released version of the framework yet!), so to me this so huge. It has felt like I would have to go do Javascript, or go back to java, if I wanted to leave the .NET ecosystem or do something radically different. Not anymore. Feels like not just Windows-based server (asp.net) and desktop (WPF/WinForms) apps are .NET based in the future, but a good chunk of what today is Node.js, Java, Objective-C and so on will be .NET, and hopefully F#, in the future.

If you want a high-level lang runtime with good IDE support, you can just use .NET now. You know, unless you want Ask toolbar.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#402

Post by elektronjunge »

virmundi wrote: post #349
JeremyMorgan wrote: post #224

I feel like the last couple years I've been cheerleading for MS and telling people how much they've changed, how open things are becoming, and how awesome the development experience is. It's fallen on deaf ears or met with resistance, but today's announcements are really gonna drive the point home. Developers need to start looking more seriously at C#/.Net. The Scotts (Hanselman/Guthrie), Miguel De Icaza and so many…

Until MS makes VS 20XX Professional cross-platform and free, I don't think they'll get much traction. I gave the a shot when I still used Windows via the Express editions. The fact that I had to jump between 3 editors to do anything and still didn't get NUnit integration is ridiculous. Many languages can use the Eclipse, IntelliJ or Netbeans platform. The JVM provides a true multi-platform target as a first class ide…

They have opened up the source on large chunks of the .net family compilers. Developing a decent ide on top of Rosalyn should relatively easy (as developing an ide could be). And while Rosalyn ides won't be as good as visual studio, Rosalyn should give them a fairly significant leg up.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#403

Post by com2kid »

jbooth wrote: post #358
saosebastiao wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You intentionally chose code that is hard to read...I could easily do the same with C#. It isn't representative of the vast majority of the code that I use nor write. That being said, when you understand the nuances of type annotations, that code is quite readable in the mathematical notation sense. It is concise and takes more time per byte to understand, but it tells me enough about the code that I rarely have to r…

It's from the standard collections library, the most-used code in any language. It is in fact representative of the vast majority of code you use. The fact that it wasn't immediately clear to you that a lot of your code DOES use this code is probably the strongest argument I could make.

Now I love C#, but in defense of the above poster, standard library code is often pretty gnarly stuff.

C++ is the poster child for this. No one argues that C++ is a bad language just because the standard library is full of magic.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#404

Post by dschiptsov »

First we have to see it as a standard Debian package.

Then we have to look at its memory usage, GC pauses, locking issues.

It is much easier to say than to port correctly a large, very complex code-base to an alien platform. (Mono has been written from scratch, if I recall correctly).

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#405

Post by orbitur »

OWaz wrote: post #125
jacquesm wrote: post #77

It's funny how Nadella has moved the needle more for developers in 9 months than Ballmer did in the last decade or so, and all that without running around like a madman too. Pretty good. I'll never switch back to MS for what they've done in the past but it is nice to see them try hard to become a nicer player in the software eco-system. Google and Apple need some other party to keep them sharp, it might as well be MS…

Seeing comments like this “I'll never switch back to MS for what they've done in the past” always reminds me of this post from Hanselman http://www.hanselman.com/blog/MicrosoftKilledMyPappy.aspx

No one else seems to be complaining about it, so it may just be me:

Your link just drops me at the front page of his blog. Searching for it through Google leads to a result, but clicking on that link also takes me to the front page. Is there a mirror?

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#406

Post by joshrivers »

nailer wrote: post #140
danabramov wrote: post #31

I know it's silly but I'm tearing up. I grew up with .NET but neglected it for years because of moving to OS X, iOS and web dev. I played for some time with Xamarin and I'm so happy this is where MS is going. a lot to do with it.

Is this Microsoft's runtime or Miguel's? I can't work out whether: - he's made it (if Mono is everywhere and now blessed by Microsoft) - he's ruined (if Microsoft's original Windows-only .net runtime is now everywhere, and there's no need for Mono) EDIT: apparently it's both - https://twitter.com/shanselman/status/532558786486370304

What I've overheard on some podcast discussions is that they are taking the multiplatform Silverlight runtime, and have enhanced it to be a headless server-type runtime instead of browser-plugin-UI-focused. It doesn't include all of the windows-only features of the CLR and BCL, but has all you need for ASP.NET vNEXT.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#407

Post by BinaryIdiot »

eropple wrote: post #204
JetSpiegel wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying core .NET libraries are worthless? Because in that case what's the point? Why not just use Java.

I'm sorry, but I have literally no idea how this post follows from the one you replied to?

> I'm sorry, but I have literally no idea how this post follows from the one you replied to?

Literally? Well it is visually displayed under it and to the right :P

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#408

Post by alkonaut »

fapjacks wrote: post #202
coldtea wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, it's anything but shitty. C# is one of the best languages out there for generic enterprise work and app development, and there's a magnigicent next gen language in F# thrown in, and a great web framework.

I keep hearing that, as if people are trying to convince themselves. But the fact is that it just doesn't exist out in the wild like its alternatives. What's more, anybody who thinks Microsoft is embracing open source by doing this is kidding themselves. There is only one motivation behind everything Microsoft does, and it isn't bringing open source philosophy to its products. Hint: That philosophy serves to undermin…

> Microsoft is not your friend

Nor is google or Oracle. So who is? To put this in perspective you need to look at the alternatives. Getting a free (as in speech) source CLR/BCL/JIT/Compiler and a free (as in beer) IDE is pretty sweet.

Sure, you can do python or Node.js, but it's not covering all that you can do now with .NET. Only java/jvm really competes on "everything except high perf" (from enterprise to mobile to cloud etc.).

And in the java universe you may end up with Ask toolbar, Eclipse and tears on your keyboard.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#409

Post by burnstek »

chx wrote: post #166
nrb wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd pin more of this on Scott Guthrie and Scott Hanselman, really. They have been championing this kind of behavior for years within MS.

But it's Nadela who allowed that vision to move forward.

And his being an executive at a corporate giant made this a very unorthodox and risky move. Having a great idea and a sound methodology is one thing; betting the future of one of the largest technology companies in the world on it is entirely different.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#410

Post by hackinthebochs »

aerique wrote: post #311
JeremyMorgan wrote: post #224

I feel like the last couple years I've been cheerleading for MS and telling people how much they've changed, how open things are becoming, and how awesome the development experience is. It's fallen on deaf ears or met with resistance, but today's announcements are really gonna drive the point home. Developers need to start looking more seriously at C#/.Net. The Scotts (Hanselman/Guthrie), Miguel De Icaza and so many…

Too little, too late IMHO. Also MS has always come across as very opportunistic, giving the impression they will drop support for this if it serves them better.

What company is not opportunistic? They are by definition.
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