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Tim Cook Speaks Up

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Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#591

Post by Crito »

wldcordeiro wrote: post #579
Crito wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To most Americans, $1k is not a "minor" amount of money. Furthermore, the exact amount of money that he donated is fairly irrelevant anyway. The donation, no matter it's magnitude, serves to illustrate what he believes. If I made a $1 donation to the local KKK group, would you make excuses for me because $1 is a trivial amount of money? Of course you would not.

Comparing donating to an active hate group to a campaign doesn't make sense. The amount is irrelevant, I'll give you that but in my opinion something someone did six years ago isn't going to determine my opinion of something now. In six years time Brendan could have gone through a lot of experiences that changed his opinion on marriage and based on his statement I would have given him the benefit of the doubt.

Feel free to substitute "KKK" with "campaign to ban interracial marriage" in my above comment. Frankly I think the later is even worse anyway; the KKK only wishes they still had enough political influence to pass unconstitutional laws in a state like California.

If Brendan had publicly released a sincere apology I would consider forgiving him. All he did was issue a bunch of "It doesn't matter, you guys are wrong for caring" statements.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#592

Post by smtddr »

downandout wrote: post #530
Tloewald wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brendan Eich is entitled to his opinion, and a large not for profit is entitled not to want someone with that opinion as a figurehead. As for who has done more for what — web browsers were going to have a scripting language. Is Javascript so astoundingly good that we can only assume any alternative would have been worse?

I don't believe in the cause that Eich donated to. But taking away someone's job over a political donation is preposterous and disturbing. If he had donated to a liberal cause and was forced out because conservative employees had a problem with it, the entire media would have come down on Mozilla like a ton of bricks. Instead his resignation was celebrated. Chilling political discourse by threatening the livelihoods…

>>I don't believe in the cause that Eich donated to. But taking away someone's job over a political donation is preposterous and disturbing.

Let's keep in mind nobody legally kicked him out. He left because he couldn't deal with the consequences of his actions. The law protects your free speech, but does not protect you from the consequences of it. http://xkcd.com/1357/

Also, let's not forget how nasty the whole prop8 campaign was... http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2014/04/04/brendan_eich_s... ....Eich could have donated to prop- 2,147,483,647, to ban interracial marriage. It would be his right, but I hope society would backlash at him the same way as prop-8 donation caused.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#593

Post by Kalium »

jshevek wrote: post #565
jshevek wrote: post #518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people aren't going to understand your statement, because they are locked into ideas like 'feminism' == 'desire for equal rights'. Too many people who call themselves feminists actually do not believe in equal rights, and present feminism as a justification for bad behaviors. If this is how you experience feminism, this is going to influence your notion of what the word feminism actually means, in practice.

> Is this not the case? It should be the case. In practice, it is often not the case. If you doubt this, search 'feminist' on youtube, watch a dozen random videos, and try to identify the issues and beliefs which the speaker sees as intrinsically 'feminist' ones, and ask yourself whether those issues and beliefs are really in support of equality. Its a bit of a mixed bag. I'm not trying to attack feminism, as I stron…

As near as I can tell, the body feminist is continually attempting that kind of effort. Unfortunately, the result resembles a bar-brawl-cum-religious-congress more than it does an effective certification body.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#594

Post by mdavidn »

adventured wrote: post #566
Bud wrote: post #459

In case you think this is no big deal, here's the updated list of Fortune 500 CEOs who are openly gay: Tim Cook

What does being openly gay mean exactly? And how do you know there aren't others on the list? About 2% of people self-identify as gay. So 10 people on that 500 list are likely to be gay, give or take. http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014... Is your theory that the remaining nine should issue press releases? How do you know others aren't openly gay with the only people that matter: friends, fam…

About 50% of people self-identify as female. Why are there only 26 female CEOs in the 500?

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#595

Post by rmc »

wldcordeiro wrote: post #579
Crito wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To most Americans, $1k is not a "minor" amount of money. Furthermore, the exact amount of money that he donated is fairly irrelevant anyway. The donation, no matter it's magnitude, serves to illustrate what he believes. If I made a $1 donation to the local KKK group, would you make excuses for me because $1 is a trivial amount of money? Of course you would not.

Comparing donating to an active hate group to a campaign doesn't make sense. The amount is irrelevant, I'll give you that but in my opinion something someone did six years ago isn't going to determine my opinion of something now. In six years time Brendan could have gone through a lot of experiences that changed his opinion on marriage and based on his statement I would have given him the benefit of the doubt.

He never said he changed his opinion on same sex marriage even when he was directly asked. Given that it could have saved job, i think you can conclude he doesn't support same sex marriage.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#596

Post by castis »

unknownBits wrote: post #522
alexbecker wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know this is bait, but I'll bite. > I truly hate the Gay Pride in our country. I think it is pathetic to be proud of your sexual orientation and feeling a need to show that off. The notion of "Gay Pride" exists to specifically counter the widespread notion that being gay is something to be ashamed of. Countering shame with pride is way more effective than countering it with "meh, it's not relevant to my identity".…

There must be more intelligent ways to gain acceptance for being gay than a gay pride, sorry but it's so lame, ever seen the pictures? The gay friends I have are nothing like that, most of them are very intelligent, sensible, and nothing like those idiot on those parades.

So you don't get it and you think its lame. Why concern yourself with a group of people who couldn't seriously care less about you. They're having a much better time than you are, stewing in the corner.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#598

Post by Shivetya »

pkfrank wrote: post #498
exodust wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a big deal because you made a list?

Because the list evidences that Tim Cook is the ONLY openly gay CEO of a Fortune 500 company (and he happens to be at the head of #5).

and I am still trying to figure the importance of this fact. We are not under a quota are? Or is that yet? Really, whats with the identity politics?

The only reason to put forward such effort to make it important is because the practice of identity politics is too moot any opposition by branding it all within the identity of the being criticized. Hence someone cannot complain about a policy of the current President because the only reason they do so is racism. Hence if you do not support the position of someone who happens to be gay well you are now a homophobe.

Lists solve nothing and reveal little.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#599

Post by mikestew »

grecy wrote: post #570
mikestew wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wow. I feel so sorry for you that you live in a supposedly civilized country You might have missed the part where he said he lives in Texas.

Oh I saw it. That's exactly what I'm talking about. The United States constantly labels itself the best country in the world, the pinnacle of democracy and freedom, etc. when unfortunately the reality for millions of people is not so good.

Right, because there are no rednecks in the rest of the world, just an atmosphere of openness and a complete lack of xenophobia.

The reality is, tribalism and convenient categorization is everywhere, and the United States is not immune. Just because there might be a legal system in place to address discrimination in its various forms does not mean you won't run into close-minded, hateful individuals as you walk down the street. As Bruce Hornsby sang years ago, "Because the law don't change another's mind When all it sees at the hiring time Is the line on the color bar"

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#600

Post by thenmar »

downandout wrote: post #571
thenmar wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brendan Eich donated money with the sole goal of denying equal rights to people based on their sexuality. There's nothing wrong with having an unpopular opinion, but I think there is something wrong with that. And I suspect you would too if it were you whose rights were being taken away. Edit: Eich supported Proposition 8 which was _ruled unconstitutional_ for violating the Equal Protection Clause. Yes, his support w…

So you're saying that stifling political discourse by firing people (or forcing them to quit) - as long as you really, really, disagree with them - is acceptable. Got it. For the sake of yourself and your loved ones, I hope you never voice an unpopular opinion.

Please don't respond to me with disrespectful and disruptive snark. Nobody was fired. Nobody went to jail. There was no "stifled discourse". If you'd like to elaborate specifically, then please do.
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