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Tim Cook Speaks Up

businessweek.com

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Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#571

Post by downandout »

thenmar wrote: post #372
angersock wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. Now if only we could remind people that there's nothing wrong with having an unpopular opinion. After all, Brendan Eich has done more for computing than Cook ever will.

Brendan Eich donated money with the sole goal of denying equal rights to people based on their sexuality. There's nothing wrong with having an unpopular opinion, but I think there is something wrong with that. And I suspect you would too if it were you whose rights were being taken away. Edit: Eich supported Proposition 8 which was _ruled unconstitutional_ for violating the Equal Protection Clause. Yes, his support w…

So you're saying that stifling political discourse by firing people (or forcing them to quit) - as long as you really, really, disagree with them - is acceptable. Got it. For the sake of yourself and your loved ones, I hope you never voice an unpopular opinion.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#572

Post by sarciszewski »

yourad_io wrote: post #562
sarciszewski wrote: post #553

This thread is growing faster than I can read it. Yeah, Tim Cook coming out as gay is a positive thing, but it's not particularly novel or revolutionary. If I were a young closeted gay person and someone said, "Apple's CEO, Tim Cook, just came out as gay," I wouldn't jump for joy for the future of gay people in technology. I'd instead make damn sure I didn't carry any Apple products in public for fear of some strange…

> I'd instead make damn sure I didn't carry any Apple products in public for fear of some stranger connecting the dots and bullying me. This makes little sense in a world where every second device you see is an iDevice.

The key word in my sentence that I believe you overlooked is fear. Fear is often irrational.

I can guarantee, however, that there's some bully somewhere using the fact that some poor kid owns an iPod as today's premise for insinuating that his victim is [insert homophobic slur here]. More than likely, this is happening in my home town. (Fuck that place.)

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#573

Post by anoncow »

avinassh wrote: post #475

Excellent news. I am from India where being gay is a crime in this country. Leaders of this country believe that being gay is a disease and it can be 'cured'[0]. According to Indian Penal Code 377[1], if you are gay you can be imprisoned for life. I had a friend and two years ago he committed suicide because he was gay. In India it's not easy to be gay. Parents and societal pressures can make anyones life living hell…

Read through the comments of an indian news website. Makes me sad. We should love more. I hope people are better than that. A lot of sexuality based and religion based hate. I hope things improve. I hope people love more.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/tech/tech-news/Being-gay-...

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#574

Post by lotsofmangos »

seunosewa wrote: post #543
jshevek wrote: post #531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> If he truly does believe in God, then, knowing for sure that he is gay, he has to believe that God made him gay. No, not at all. This is only one very narrow view of how a deity may function, or the kind of relationship a diety may have with the universe, or the humans within it.

What are the other views of how a diety may function? If God didn't make him gay, who did? (from a believer's POV)

This is the main difference between Deism and Theism. Deists (like Thomas Jefferson), did not believe that god was still around, but had just started the whole shebang and then left.

Also, even in Theism you can have a pretty hands-off god. In modern Catholicism, evolution probably made him gay, but god created evolution. Pope John Paul II wrote an encyclical accepting evolution ages ago, so Catholicism doesn't require god to be involved with every single detail of creation.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#575

Post by tommorris »

yourad_io wrote: post #486
linguafranca wrote: post #328

This is the culture I was brought up in. This kind of article is the reason I grew up believing there was nothing wrong with homosexuality. Since every single other comment here is inevitably going to be some kind of applause and praise, let me briefly offer the perspective of some who have been silenced on HN and in the general tech world. We know that homosexuality is a destructive force in society. While we love T…

> We know that homosexuality is a destructive force in society. > It's yet another small victory for the evil one For your own good, please, please, please, please try to reconcile your religion with reality. There's a whole load of stuff in the Bible that isn't meant to be taken literally. The current Pope has been very forward-thinking (in Catholic church scales) in 'relaxing' views about contraception, homosexuali…

> The current Pope has been very forward-thinking (in Catholic church scales) in 'relaxing' views about contraception, homosexuality, etc.

He's been very good at mood music. He's been completely useless at actual substantive change on those issues. He gets very good press for saying nice things, which is as good as the Catholic Church is going to get.

Meanwhile, he's meeting and blessing Museveni, the leader of Uganda. http://uganda.news24.com/National-News/President-Museveni-me...

And then there's the anti-gay Spanish cardinal he appointed. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/pope-francis-...

With change like this...

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#576

Post by eyeareque »

It's heart warming to see the world become a better place. I'm glad Tim did this; While it is a small article, it will be remembered and it will change some people's live. Just as others have done before him, and will after him, it will lead us to a more accepting culture that we need to continue to striving to be.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#578

Post by gfodor »

dwild wrote: post #493
gfodor wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Donating money to support a campaign on a proposition supported by 52% of voters is not 'hurting people', and saying so is hyperbolic and ridiculous. The reality is that the gay rights movement did not have the unprecedented swiftness it did by alienating those who feel differently about homosexuality. It traditionally has been a movement predicated on the idea that people who didn't support gay rights could be conve…

Supporting a cause that limit someone right based on their sexual orientation is hurting people. The fact that 52% support it doesn't change the fact that you limit someone right. Even if 99% people believe that brown hair people shouldn't have the right to take the bus, it wouldn't be less wrong. It's not magically right to limit rights because the majority agree. I never said that what people did to Eich is right,…

Sorry, if you are going to re-define 'hurting people' to mean 'making a modest political donation to a mainstream position that some argue is discriminatory' I don't know what to tell you. This hard line perspective stifles an open society. In this case, money is speech, and regardless of how wrong it is it's not the kind of speech I'd classify as harmful. ("Fire in a crowded theater.")

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#579

Post by wldcordeiro »

Crito wrote: post #507
wldcordeiro wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The witch hunt against Brendan was just terrible. He made a minor donation years ago and it's something people blew out of proportion. Here was his statement about inclusiveness after his donation became an issue https://brendaneich.com/2014/03/inclusiveness-at-mozilla/ To me it looks like he was committed to keeping Mozilla inclusive and would have been a great CEO.

To most Americans, $1k is not a "minor" amount of money. Furthermore, the exact amount of money that he donated is fairly irrelevant anyway. The donation, no matter it's magnitude, serves to illustrate what he believes. If I made a $1 donation to the local KKK group, would you make excuses for me because $1 is a trivial amount of money? Of course you would not.

Comparing donating to an active hate group to a campaign doesn't make sense. The amount is irrelevant, I'll give you that but in my opinion something someone did six years ago isn't going to determine my opinion of something now.

In six years time Brendan could have gone through a lot of experiences that changed his opinion on marriage and based on his statement I would have given him the benefit of the doubt.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#580

Post by anoncow »

silencio wrote: post #421
jzymbaluk wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>that's sad that we're still at this point That said, public opinion is changing very rapidly. XKCD 1431 ( http://xkcd.com/1431/ ) offers an interesting visualization and comparison between gay marriage and interracial marriage. According to XKCD's source, interracial marriage didn't reach majority approval until 1995, while gay marriage already reached majority approval in 2011. Now obviously this rift could be the…

Majority opinion may change but there are still so many holdouts. Which is why I'm glad to see things like this. I'm Asian and I married a white guy. It's only been seven months. I lost count of the number of people that raised their eyebrows because of my new European last name (less than the people surprised that he also changed his name!) and also lost count of how many people assumed my husband was Asian ~not~ a…

Kudos on the name thing!
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