Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tim Cook Speaks Up

businessweek.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

511–520 of 1001 posts

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#511

Post by benihana »

angersock wrote: post #380
thenmar wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brendan Eich donated money with the sole goal of denying equal rights to people based on their sexuality. There's nothing wrong with having an unpopular opinion, but I think there is something wrong with that. And I suspect you would too if it were you whose rights were being taken away. Edit: Eich supported Proposition 8 which was _ruled unconstitutional_ for violating the Equal Protection Clause. Yes, his support w…

Eich participated in a public system in an approved way at a political level, did so without letting his politics get in the way of his personal or professional life, and made functional programming ubiquitous. There's nothing wrong with what he did given that he didn't let that view (in the abstract) color his personal interactions. And, let us note, it's all speculation on this point as to what or why he did it, be…

>By contrast, Tim Cook continued contracts with Foxconn with the sole goal of minimizing production costs by using underpaid overworked labor

Do you have any proof of this or citations on it? Everything I've seen about Apple regarding its supply chain is that it goes above and beyond the minimum needed to be in compliance, and they seem to genuinely care about the well being of their employees in China.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#512

Post by michaelsbradley »

parasubvert wrote: post #414
kyrra wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(This is from my understanding of this, which is pretty limited) I think this is an important point about Christianity and homosexuality. While the bible states homosexuality is a sin, it says a lot of things are sins. But it doesn't have some scale of REALLY BAD sins vs tiny sins. Sins are sins when it comes to Christianity. And the only way to salvation is through Jesus. A church that would reject members based on…

The Catholic Church actually only considers homosexual sexual acts a sin. The root of this is a particular belief in natural order and law, ie. all sexual acts that aren't aimed at procreation are considered sins (somewhat different levels of gravity depending on the situation - but this is where the "every sperm is sacred" joke comes from) Being gay in itself is not a sin.

Your "aren't aimed at procreation" comment isn't quite correct. The objection, in the context of marriage, is to sexual acts which impair the transmission of life per se.

See, for example, Humane Vitae:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanae_Vitae#Highlights

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#513

Post by brianobush »

logfromblammo wrote: post #219
stephenr wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most dangerous company of all time?

People of the bazaar fear those of the cathedral, because they can count the people entering the walled gardens, and many of them never emerge to trade in the agora ever again. Apple has a big garden.

The walls are painted to make it the enclosed space feel open. Soon we will want to be enclosed once our conditioning takes hold :)

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#514

Post by jayrox »

socialist_coder wrote: post #126
praptak wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me it came across as purely figurative. IMHO the usual phrases like "thank God it's not raining" are pretty much detached from the religious context. Is it different in US?

"Thank God it's not raining" is completely different from saying "... the greatest gifts God has given me." The first is just a frivolous small talk type comment. Non-religious people would say this. It's part of the common US vocabulary. The second is much more serious, and the speaker is actually thanking God for how he is. A non-religious person would never say it. Religious people do this type of thing all the ti…

the jesus fish is always the one i get a small smirk when i see.

quick google: http://www.albatrus.org/english/religions/pagan/origin_fish_...

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#516

Post by jimmytucson »

gmays wrote: post #150
Jedd wrote: post #20

I wonder how carefully crafted this line was: ... I consider being gay among the greatest gifts God has given me. It seems a particularly odd thing to slip in, on so many levels.

I guess it depends on how you look at it. He's a "son of the South" and a self-described religious man, so this makes sense. But this also makes sense from a PR perspective because according to American political polls being an atheist is "worse" than being black, gay, a women, etc. It's apparently largely unforgivable to be godless. So, some may be surprised to learn he's gay, but then take some solace in the fact t…

I've never come across a poll that asks, "Which of these do you consider worst: being gay, black, female, or atheist?" but I doubt the answer to a question like that would be useful anyway.

I'm a little amused by you guys trying to work out all the "PR" angles Cook could be trying to exploit by mentioning his faith without even considering that it's is a genuinely important part of who he is.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#517

Post by [deleted] »

jshevek wrote: post #495
robomartin wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I applaud this. I am not gay. Conventional family, kids, etc. Oh, yes, I am also an atheist which, today, in the US, is worst than being gay in some circles. As I am sure a lot of you know, the reality show Survivor features a male homosexual couple this year. Bravo! We watch the show with our kids every week. Yes, they ask questions. The little ones cover their eyes when anybody kisses on TV anyway. Seeing two men k…

Several statements he made in this post seemed weirdly manipulative to me, and that was one of them. I mean, its great that he chooses and advocates the view that homosexuality can be a 'gift'. That it can be a positive thing! Props for that! But the phrasing...does he really believe that the imaginary being he worships chose for him to be gay? Like the creator of the universe is really sitting there saying "oh, I'll…

[deleted]

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#518

Post by jshevek »

Kalium wrote: post #491
yourad_io wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> After you've been called a potential rapist several times in an academic or workplace setting just for your gender, you stop sympathizing with the modern feminist movement. So, there are some bad feminists around. [1] When people are absurd, feel free to 'absurd' right back at them (i.e. "Sure, I'm a potential rapist - as much as you are a potential murderer!"). "Dropping sympathy" for the feminist movement as a re…

> "Dropping sympathy" for the feminist movement as a response a few bad feminists that you've encountered is not really justified, or rational. When you are made to feel unwanted, excluded, and otherwise not welcome it is natural to go elsewhere in search of inclusiveness. This is a far more common reaction than that of adopting sympathy for those excluding you. No aspect of this should be surprising to a feminist.

Some people aren't going to understand your statement, because they are locked into ideas like 'feminism' == 'desire for equal rights'.

Too many people who call themselves feminists actually do not believe in equal rights, and present feminism as a justification for bad behaviors.

If this is how you experience feminism, this is going to influence your notion of what the word feminism actually means, in practice.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#519

Post by krrrh »

dwild wrote: post #451
jzymbaluk wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>that's sad that we're still at this point That said, public opinion is changing very rapidly. XKCD 1431 ( http://xkcd.com/1431/ ) offers an interesting visualization and comparison between gay marriage and interracial marriage. According to XKCD's source, interracial marriage didn't reach majority approval until 1995, while gay marriage already reached majority approval in 2011. Now obviously this rift could be the…

Considering it's from Randal, I guess we can trust this but to the eye, but it seems like the variation is really similar. The only real difference is that the US government doesn't help their cause where for interracial, they did way before majority. I don't know which is better but I don't believe rights should be dictated by popular opinions but by facts.

I think you're making a good point that governments followed rather than led in the case of marriage equality, however it's interesting to reflect on just how recent majority support has been in the gay community itself. Some early proponents such as Andrew Sullivan faced apathy and criticism from gay rights advocacy groups such as Human Rights Campaign in the 1980s and 1990s for even broaching the subject. It's always surprised me how so many of the strongest opponents to recognition of gay marriage were openly gay themselves.

TL;DR marginalized group ideology is strange

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#520

Post by Kalium »

yourad_io wrote: post #503
Kalium wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Dropping sympathy" for the feminist movement as a response a few bad feminists that you've encountered is not really justified, or rational. When you are made to feel unwanted, excluded, and otherwise not welcome it is natural to go elsewhere in search of inclusiveness. This is a far more common reaction than that of adopting sympathy for those excluding you. No aspect of this should be surprising to a feminist.

> When you are made to feel unwanted, excluded, and otherwise not welcome it is natural to go elsewhere in search of inclusiveness. Sure, but the GP wasn't talking about a particular group rejecting them, but rather "stop sympathizing with the entire modern feminist movement". That's an extreme reaction to disliking a subset of the movement's followers. > This is a far more common reaction than that of adopting sympa…

When a person's entire exposure to a group consists wholly of a few bad members, they are likely to figure that sample representative. They are not likely to keep re-sampling until they find a desirable sample. It's irrational to expect otherwise.

Why do you expect otherwise? Why do you feel compelled to couple it with insults?

Post reply on HN