Tim Cook Speaks Up • Hacker News Board

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#431

Post by isleyaardvark » Thu, Oct 30, 2014, 4:45 PM UTC

venomsnake wrote: post #225

melling wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did he come to that conclusion? What changed? The story for over 2000 years was quite different in most religious organizations. If they had come to that conclusion any number of years ago, people might not have felt the need to hide it. Furthermore, people like Alan Turing might have had a much better life.

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/07/29/pope-francis-on-gay... Dunno. Probably knows that the church is sliding into irrelevance if it stick to its old ways.

That quote was taken out of context. It's still his and the Church's position that homosexuality is a sin: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/getreligion/2014/01/journalists...

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#432

Post by haberman » Thu, Oct 30, 2014, 4:46 PM UTC

angersock wrote: post #380

thenmar wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brendan Eich donated money with the sole goal of denying equal rights to people based on their sexuality. There's nothing wrong with having an unpopular opinion, but I think there is something wrong with that. And I suspect you would too if it were you whose rights were being taken away. Edit: Eich supported Proposition 8 which was _ruled unconstitutional_ for violating the Equal Protection Clause. Yes, his support w…

Eich participated in a public system in an approved way at a political level, did so without letting his politics get in the way of his personal or professional life, and made functional programming ubiquitous. There's nothing wrong with what he did given that he didn't let that view (in the abstract) color his personal interactions. And, let us note, it's all speculation on this point as to what or why he did it, be…

> There's nothing wrong with what [Brendan] did given that he didn't let that view (in the abstract) color his personal interactions.

Strom Thurmond filibustered the Civil Rights Act of 1957 for 24 hours and 18 minutes. After that he continued to serve in the US Senate until 2003.

Yes, his actions were a lawful expression of his power. But I think there is something deeply wrong with using your power, even lawfully, to deny the rights of people who are less powerful than you. Even if you are nice to those same people in personal interactions.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#433

Post by arrrg » Thu, Oct 30, 2014, 4:47 PM UTC

Jedd wrote: post #20

I wonder how carefully crafted this line was: ... I consider being gay among the greatest gifts God has given me. It seems a particularly odd thing to slip in, on so many levels.

Is it really so hard to believe that he might just be religious?

Jesus Christ, atheists are the worst (as can be seen here in this thread). And I say that as an atheist …

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#434

Post by wldcordeiro » Thu, Oct 30, 2014, 4:48 PM UTC

angersock wrote: post #363

dwild wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At first I didn't like the news. Tim Cook is gay, so what? I though 5 seconds about it and then I realized how actually we still need this... we still need to remind people that there's nothing wrong with being gay. That's sad that we are still at this point.

Yep. Now if only we could remind people that there's nothing wrong with having an unpopular opinion. After all, Brendan Eich has done more for computing than Cook ever will.

The witch hunt against Brendan was just terrible. He made a minor donation years ago and it's something people blew out of proportion.

Here was his statement about inclusiveness after his donation became an issue https://brendaneich.com/2014/03/inclusiveness-at-mozilla/ To me it looks like he was committed to keeping Mozilla inclusive and would have been a great CEO.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#435

Post by davesque » Thu, Oct 30, 2014, 4:49 PM UTC

Excellent news. For someone who has often been described as very private and opaque, I feel like I understand him a lot better now. Not to mention the positive social impact this will probably have.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#436

Post by martin1975 » Thu, Oct 30, 2014, 4:49 PM UTC

dwild wrote: post #292

ForrestN wrote: post #235

I am incredibly grateful to Cook for this, not least because of how it will affect young gay people. When I was a child, I felt generally good about myself. I was reasonably smart, well-spoken, curious, and so on, and I wanted to do something important with my life. Some nagging part of me suspected I was gay from very early on, but I resisted it intensely. I wasn't really afraid of being mistreated, although I proba…

At first I didn't like the news. Tim Cook is gay, so what? I though 5 seconds about it and then I realized how actually we still need this... we still need to remind people that there's nothing wrong with being gay. That's sad that we are still at this point.

Do you think there's anything wrong with Houston's lesbian mayor subpoena-ing pastor's sermons? How about peaceful non-cooperation with the law based on one's protected rights of speech and freedom of religion by refusing to participate in a gay wedding as a photographer or a caterer? How about a militant lesbian activist/"journalist" (Masha Gessen) who admits the true purpose of the "gay rights movement" is not access to marriage, but a redefinition and the eventual elimination? I can continue, but I think you get the point - don't delude yourself by thinking the LGBT folks are here to assert their rights - if it were only that, the above wouldn't be happening. No, they are out to recruit you into agreeing with them.

And that, my friend, IS a problem.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#437

Post by mikestew » Thu, Oct 30, 2014, 4:50 PM UTC

grecy wrote: post #401

scragg wrote: post #275

I am a white male married to a black female with 2 mixed kids living in Texas. While we haven't experienced much bigotry our way, it has happened. The first time I was filled with disbelief and shortly after rage while my wife (then gf) cried. Our lives would be different if we were born a generation ago. Thank you MLK and Tim Cook.

Wow. I feel so sorry for you that you live in a supposedly civilized country and you have to live with that. What a shame.

> Wow. I feel so sorry for you that you live in a supposedly civilized country

You might have missed the part where he said he lives in Texas.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#438

Post by Zaheer » Thu, Oct 30, 2014, 4:50 PM UTC

super_mario wrote: post #174

uid wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry to tell you this, but your ignorance of religion and monotheism is astounding. Reading your comments it is very apparent that you take any mention of a belief in God to mean a follower of the American branch of reformist protestant Christianity with biblical literalism. That is a very broad brush, as the fundamentalists literalists are a tiny part of Christianity and of broader monotheism. They make up abou…

You know I don't really care if people are literalist fundamentalist bible thumpers or unitarians, muslims or even deists. They are all wrong, and they all believe in things unsupported by evidence or completely debunked lies. I only care about what is true, and I don't have any reservations about telling people what they believe isn't true, esp. when they bring it out to the open and implicitly invite the discussion…

"Islam he says kill your enemies and apostates"

Your interpretation of Islam is flat-out wrong.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#439

Post by dwild » Thu, Oct 30, 2014, 4:51 PM UTC

angersock wrote: post #386

dwild wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure there's nothing wrong with having an unpopular opinion but it's wrong to hurt other people based on an opinion (in this case he hurt them by limiting their right).

You do realize that he didn't actually limit their rights, correct? He cast a dollar vote in support of a proposition, same way any of us could give campaign donations to a candidate we liked. He participated in the political framework in a widely-accepted way , and the system failed to effect the outcome he seems to have voted for: democracy prevailed, the system worked, nobody was harmed. You might as well round up…

He voted for limiting their rights. He actively acted against people rights. The fact that it wasn't successful doesn't make it right.

Even if the majority of people decide that jews need to be killed, I will still believe it's wrong.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#440

Post by cookiecaper » Thu, Oct 30, 2014, 4:51 PM UTC

efaref wrote: post #61

broodbucket wrote: post #4

Being in such a progressive community (i.e. young nerdy people), it's easy to forget that this is an enormous deal for some people. A friend of mine recently came out as transgender and the general response was "oh, cool, good for you". It's hard to fathom what it's like for people who aren't in such a supportive environment. There are undoubtedly many people who will no longer purchase Apple products because of this…

If they won't buy Apple products because the CEO is gay, they probably shouldn't buy any computers at all, seeing as the entire field is built on the work of a gay man.

Why should the work product of an individual be restricted only to people who agree with his choices? If someone doesn't buy Apple products because the CEO is gay, they're saying they don't want to send money to people promoting a homosexual lifestyle, not that they can't respect his work and not that they don't appreciate it.

Do you agree with all of the life choices made by every innovator throughout the centuries, many of whom were very religious and almost assuredly would've been anti-gay had such a movement existed in their time? It may make sense to deprive these people of money now if you disagree with them, but it doesn't make sense to discharge all the output of their life's work once there's no more threat of them actually receiving direct monetary aid from your purchases, and it doesn't make sense to denigrate the product on its own basis, independent from the behavior or ideals of the original creator. We should recognize good wherever we can find it.