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Tim Cook Speaks Up

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Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#381

Post by prewett »

Arnor wrote: post #276
worklogin wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't you? Whether it's good or not, aren't you pushing homosexuality on everyone, saying, "It's not OK to disapprove of our lifestyle"?

No... They simply acknowledge that the roughly 4% of the population that identify with the LGBT community exists. It's a pretty far push from acknowledging existence to "pushing homosexuality on everyone." I'll leave as an exercise to the reader to identify the mental gymnastics required to come up with the phrase: "pushing homosexuality on everyone"

I'm not sure who "they" is talking about in this thread, so I might be a little off here, but it definitely goes beyond acknowledging existence. People have acknowledged homosexuality for thousands of years (that's why there is a word for it). What the LGBT community wants is acceptance that it is a acceptable form of sexual expression.

I definitely feel like there is some amount of "pushing homosexuality on everyone" that has been going on the past five or ten years. It's no longer socially acceptable to think that homosexuality is wrong or an unhealthy sexual expression. Even donating to an anti-homosexuality lobby can get you pressured to resign [1]. Depending on the state you live in, you may have to accept gay marriage, even if it violates what you feel like marriage is. I don't know if sex-ed in schools is teaching it yet, but if not, I assume it is just a matter of time. If homosexuality is an unhealthy expression of sexuality, you won't want your kids exposed to that, but, no choice.

For people who agree that LGBT is acceptable, this probably feels like progress. For people who view LGBT as unhealthy sexual expression, the net effect feels a lot like "pushing homosexuality" on us.

[1] Brendan Eich, former Mozilla CEO

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#382

Post by webXL »

Good for him. At first my reaction was "meh", but I think this is a net win for gays and Apple. Homophobes probably weren't buying many Apple products to begin with, and potential/reasonable homophobes now see another successful leader who just so happens to be gay. The message to those people is pretty clear: better not mistreat people because of their sexual preference; not only will you look like an ass, but you run the risk of pissing off the person who might be signing your paycheck one day. Not to mention designing some cool piece of tech that you brag about owning.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#383

Post by jzymbaluk »

dwild wrote: post #292
ForrestN wrote: post #235

I am incredibly grateful to Cook for this, not least because of how it will affect young gay people. When I was a child, I felt generally good about myself. I was reasonably smart, well-spoken, curious, and so on, and I wanted to do something important with my life. Some nagging part of me suspected I was gay from very early on, but I resisted it intensely. I wasn't really afraid of being mistreated, although I proba…

At first I didn't like the news. Tim Cook is gay, so what? I though 5 seconds about it and then I realized how actually we still need this... we still need to remind people that there's nothing wrong with being gay. That's sad that we are still at this point.

>that's sad that we're still at this point

That said, public opinion is changing very rapidly. XKCD 1431 (http://xkcd.com/1431/) offers an interesting visualization and comparison between gay marriage and interracial marriage. According to XKCD's source, interracial marriage didn't reach majority approval until 1995, while gay marriage already reached majority approval in 2011.

Now obviously this rift could be the result of oddly-worded polls, data mis-interpretation or some other factor and it shouldn't be taken as a strict source, but I believe it speaks volumes all the same

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#384

Post by gknoy »

smcl wrote: post #336
untog wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shrug. There hasn't been a publicly gay President, which is what would in the context the OP is discussing.

If by "President" you mean the equivalent "head of a country's government" role then Iceland elected an openly gay Prime Minister in 2009[0]. But I'm guessing you're all meaning "US President" [0] - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7862804.stm

That's neat! You're right, though, the OP was likely focusing on a US president. Not many US citizens look at other countries' heads of state as a role model to the same degree as our own.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#385

Post by [deleted] »

lotharbot wrote: post #374
mkr-hn wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So many have done it willingly, in advance of any pressure, that religion isn't a credible defense. edit: I just realized I got dragged way off topic by a troll. Whoops.

there's a great deal of diversity in religion. The fact that some religious groups have taken a particular stand doesn't make it "not pushy" to force other groups to follow. EDIT: for example, a lot of religions don't have a problem with pork, but some do. It would be pushy to require a kosher or halal deli to serve pork. Likewise, there are some who want to require, say, Southern Baptist churches to perform same-sex…

[deleted]

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#386

Post by angersock »

dwild wrote: post #379
angersock wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. Now if only we could remind people that there's nothing wrong with having an unpopular opinion. After all, Brendan Eich has done more for computing than Cook ever will.

Sure there's nothing wrong with having an unpopular opinion but it's wrong to hurt other people based on an opinion (in this case he hurt them by limiting their right).

You do realize that he didn't actually limit their rights, correct?

He cast a dollar vote in support of a proposition, same way any of us could give campaign donations to a candidate we liked. He participated in the political framework in a widely-accepted way, and the system failed to effect the outcome he seems to have voted for: democracy prevailed, the system worked, nobody was harmed.

You might as well round up every Republican who voted against Obama or Democrat who voted against Bush because they're clearly enemies of liberty. Be careful what you wish for.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#387

Post by innguest »

dsjoerg wrote: post #242

The shocking news here is that Tim Cook is religious.

I agree. We should be a lot more shocked that an individual that understands the internet and how information spreads still clings to the fairy tales told to him by his parents.

This is no different than believing in Santa Claus and we're all distracted by what kind of sex he likes to have. I've never heard of a war started by gay people. Being religious is being complicit in that religion's wrongdoings.

Also I'd say it's strange that a gay person is religious. Any person holding a non-mainstream position ends up having to do a lot of thinking and reading before accepting oneself for what they are. In that process they usually become a lot more rational. Didn't work for Tim, though. Weird.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#388

Post by pyvek »

linguafranca wrote: post #353
GuiA wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you will possibly be downvoted, but not because your opinion dissents with the majority. There are plenty of dissenting opinions on HN who get upvoted to the top, as long as they're well argued and informed. You will be downvoted because your comment has no substance to it. The only claim you make is "we know that homosexuality is a destructive force in society", and it isn't backed up by any meaningful conversa…

The self-evident fact that homosexuality is contrary to nature should be sufficient substance.

Then I suppose you consider medical advancements to be unnatural and thus bad too as compared to the natural course of letting the diseases just kill you and similarly modern form of communications bad as well over the traditional flapping of mouth flesh.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#389

Post by lotharbot »

DonHopkins wrote: post #248
DanBC wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where the homesexual agenda in Disney movies? I'd prefer specific examples rather than just handwavey nonsense.

Yeah, what's the deal with your use of the loaded dog whistle term "agenda"? Listen to Fox News much? And with your presumption that the answer you're likely to get on HN might be "handwavey nonsense"? Or are you implying that Fantasia's Sorcerer and Micky Mouse are gay just because they wave their hands around to conjure up colorful butterflies, broomsticks, comets, waves and storm clouds?

I got the impression that DanBC's question was genuine, and meant the opposite of what you accuse him of implying.

People have been accusing Disney of "pushing the gay agenda" (negatively) for years -- but those same people have not been able to point to concrete examples of people with same-sex attraction, they've only been able to point to BS like Mickey Mouse having a high voice. Now in this thread people are suggesting Disney is "taking a stand" (positive phrasing of the same issue) -- but they still seem to be lacking concrete examples. It seems inappropriate to credit Disney for "taking a stand" (or to criticize them for "pushing an agenda") without being able to point to an unambiguous, romantically-involved same-sex couple.

I suspect DanBC is like me -- I'd like to see an unambiguous example before categorizing Disney as "taking a stand".

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#390

Post by notjackma »

angersock wrote: post #363
dwild wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At first I didn't like the news. Tim Cook is gay, so what? I though 5 seconds about it and then I realized how actually we still need this... we still need to remind people that there's nothing wrong with being gay. That's sad that we are still at this point.

Yep. Now if only we could remind people that there's nothing wrong with having an unpopular opinion. After all, Brendan Eich has done more for computing than Cook ever will.

52% of Californians voted in favor of Prop 8 (to ban same-sex marriage) so you could argue Brendan Eich holds a rather popular opinion.
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