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Tim Cook Speaks Up

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Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#421
post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At first I didn't like the news. Tim Cook is gay, so what? I though 5 seconds about it and then I realized how actually we still need this... we still need to remind people that there's nothing wrong with being gay. That's sad that we are still at this point.

>that's sad that we're still at this point That said, public opinion is changing very rapidly. XKCD 1431 ( http://xkcd.com/1431/ ) offers an interesting visualization and comparison between gay marriage and interracial marriage. According to XKCD's source, interracial marriage didn't reach majority approval until 1995, while gay marriage already reached majority approval in 2011. Now obviously this rift could be the…

Majority opinion may change but there are still so many holdouts. Which is why I'm glad to see things like this.

I'm Asian and I married a white guy. It's only been seven months. I lost count of the number of people that raised their eyebrows because of my new European last name (less than the people surprised that he also changed his name!) and also lost count of how many people assumed my husband was Asian ~not~ a big white bearded guy. In SF Bay Area of all places. That's like the most common variety of interracial marriages here.

But... the best wrench I threw into the mix? I'm pansexual. If gay marriage has a long way to go still, understanding that I am personally no less attracted to women/others for having married a man is gonna take another 100 years. Even for gay/lesbian folks. It's very weird.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

52% of Californians voted in favor of Prop 8 (to ban same-sex marriage) so you could argue Brendan Eich holds a rather popular opinion.

> 52% of Californians voted in favor of Prop 8 (to ban same-sex marriage) No, they didn't. 52% of those who voted on Prop 8 (about 79% of the ~17M eligible and registered to vote, which were themselves only about 45% of Californians) voted for Prop 8 -- so about 19% of Californians voted for it. > so you could argue Brendan Eich holds a rather popular opinion. Well, no, you couldn't make a good argument that he holds…

>No, they didn't. 52% of those who voted on Prop 8 (about 79% of the ~17M eligible and registered to vote, which were themselves only about 45% of Californians) voted for Prop 8 -- so about 19% of Californians voted for it.

So the rest were either not competent to voice their opinion (below voting age), did not have sufficient stake for their opinion to matter or have proved their opinion doesn't count (residents who did not meet local requirements for franchisement or whose franchisement has been revoked, e.g., convicted felons), or simply didn't care enough to go make their opinion heard. I'd say 52% is still a fair number to quote, even if it may not be literally true if you're counting babies and other persons who are legally ineligible from having an opinion.

>After all, opinions change.

Sure, but not all that much that quickly. The latest polls show 45% of the American population still opposes same-sex marriage. While the opinion has shifted from majority to minority after relentless media campaigning, much like that in the article, there are still a very large number of people that hold it; it's still a "popular opinion".

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a hard time thinking of anyone as Christian if they ignore the basic tenants of what the Bible says. Homosexuality is very clearly spelled out as wrong. So are plenty of other things of course and the Bible doesn't specify homosexual behavior as any more or less wrong than any other sinful act. Christians shouldn't be treating homosexuals any different than anyone else, but that includes letting people know th…

"I have hard time thinking of anyone as an IOS engineer if they ignore the basics tenants of what Apple documentation states. XYZ is very clearly spelled out as unsafe."

To be fair as an iOS engineer, I'd appreciate it if more people read the HIG, and considered why things like UIAlertViews are discouraged. :)

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#424
This is going to sound callous, but my reaction is: big deal.

And this should be everybody's reaction, IMO. I'll explain momentarily.

Being gay isn't easy if you aren't in a supportive environment. Hell, being gay will get you killed in some cultures and countries. In some places you'll merely be shunned and disowned by your family and friends. As a straight guy, I know this. How?

Because for the last 20 years or so, I've heard this again and again. The LGBT movement is nothing if not vocal and persistent, even to the point of being heavy-handed. I'm not saying I'm unsympathetic, I'm just saying that if there's a target demographic for "awareness", I haven't classified to be in that group for years.

So when Tim Cook officially announces his sexuality, I'm well aware that this isn't something as casually mentioned as being left-handed, having AB- blood type or a peanut allergy, preferring cats over dogs, or liking the color yellow. I'm also aware that for LGBT folks who haven't come out, seeing a successful person do so can be encouraging and inspiring.

Now regarding my "big deal" reaction...

While civilization will never be without bigots of one form or another, if we as a society are ever going to get past racial/gender/sexual issues, then disclosures like Cook's need to be unremarkable. Comparing America's reaction to Billy Crystal simply playing a gay man on "Soap" in the 80s to today, it seems like we've come a long way in a relatively short time compared to other social movements.

By the same token, an incident earlier this year demonstrated that the tech industry is probably the one of most gay-friendly business sectors to be in. Ironically, Brendan Eich was attacked, ostracized and shunned for his beliefs because they weren't gay-friendly. As an outsider, it does not appear that being a gay CEO in the California high-tech industry is as much of a burden as, say, a restaurant owner in Istanbul.

Finally, Tim Cook is worth upwards of $400 million. Like all wealthy individuals, he is generally insulated from contact with the rest of us simply because of his lifestyle: he doesn't take the bus, doesn't live in an apartment or typical suburban neighborhood, and certainly doesn't work in a cubicle. He likely won't encounter hate unless he tries to personally negotiate the opening of an Apple store in Moscow or Tehran. He's not a monster because he's rich (as far as I know he might be a really nice guy), but he's hardly an "everyman". For what it's worth, I had a similar reaction when many people were showering Mark Zuckerberg with praise for learning Chinese: hell, if I was that rich, I'd have time (and money) to learn Chinese from the best tutors.

In short, anyone announcing that they're gay should garner a "so what?" reaction because as a society we should be moving towards a person's actions being more important than their appearance, beliefs, or sexual orientation. And a multimillionaire making such an announcement today should elicit yawns because he is not representative of a typical person.

Edit: Not surprised by the downvote without explanation. Congratulations, sir or ma'am: you're part of the problem.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#425
post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure there's nothing wrong with having an unpopular opinion but it's wrong to hurt other people based on an opinion (in this case he hurt them by limiting their right).

You do realize that he didn't actually limit their rights, correct? He cast a dollar vote in support of a proposition, same way any of us could give campaign donations to a candidate we liked. He participated in the political framework in a widely-accepted way , and the system failed to effect the outcome he seems to have voted for: democracy prevailed, the system worked, nobody was harmed. You might as well round up…

> democracy prevailed, the system worked, nobody was harmed.

That's not true. For several years, people in California were denied marriage rights because of Prop 8. It was judicially overturned, not democratically so.

He actually did limit their rights.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#426
post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why base a field on only one person> Because Alan Turing is the father of computer science. Basically everything that came after depended crucially on his work.

George Boole, Charles Babbage, John von Neumann, Grace Hopper - To name a few great contributors. Yes Alan Turing is considered the father of computer science but with out the knowledge of others before him (and even during his time) we could be living in a different world right now. Even the late, great Isaac Newton said - [1]"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." 1. https://en.wikipe…

Many seem to think that he wrote that in the letter just to annoy Robert Hooke, who was rather short in height.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. Now if only we could remind people that there's nothing wrong with having an unpopular opinion. After all, Brendan Eich has done more for computing than Cook ever will.

Brendan Eich is entitled to his opinion, and a large not for profit is entitled not to want someone with that opinion as a figurehead. As for who has done more for what — web browsers were going to have a scripting language. Is Javascript so astoundingly good that we can only assume any alternative would have been worse?

>Brendan Eich is entitled to his opinion, and a large not for profit is entitled not to want someone with that opinion as a figurehead.

Except Mozilla didn't make that choice. Eich was not fired or asked to resign. Mozilla made it clear they still wanted him. Eich voluntarily stepped down and excused himself from the community after it had shown its shallow, naive definition of tolerance. I don't blame him for not wanting to work in the industry anymore.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#428
post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your job was to blather on air day after day for however many hours you'd probably say a couple dumb things too. Everyone has "known" Tim Cook was gay forever so it's not a hard mistake to make.

How did everyone know? Or even, guess? I assume there are a few factors which generally correlate with being gay, such as never being seen dating a girl or trying to stick with gay fashions?

Hey, how awesome of you to drag stereotypes into this …

If you had read the article it should become quite clear to you why quite a few people knew and some people even wrote about it.

Since in general journalists will avoid to publish the sexual orientation of someone unless that person made public statements about it, most journalists just didn’t write about it. (I think that’s exactly the right guideline to follow. It is awesome when people come out to help others who are struggling, but this is still a personal decision and I don’t think journalists should make that decision for people. There should never be an obligation to come out.)

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#429
post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it possible to knight someone posthumously? Has this happened?

No. No. In fact, in past times ( of kings and queens), one man was killed in a battle and his brother was given a much higher title because you cannot give the honorable title to a deceased individual.

Not only can you not knight deceased people, but when knights die they lose their title. #QuiteInteresting. #whenwillhnsupporthashtags.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There are undoubtedly many people who will no longer purchase Apple products because of this I disagree. First, I think it was widely assumed that he was gay, and if it wasn't, he was accidentally outed during a live TV broadcast a few months ago by a CNBC reporter [1]. Second, the people that think this way probably already avoid Apple products, as both Tim Cook and Apple have been vocal on gay rights for quite som…

> I think it was widely assumed that he was gay By who, Apple fanboys? Your average person probably doesn't even know who is Apple's current CEO let alone that he's gay.

There were at least a couple of places where it was mentioned earlier this year (and it was kind of "known" in the past too).

Two links from April 2014: Out Magazine - http://www.out.com/out-exclusives/power-50/2014/04/15/what-d...

HuffPo (about the same) - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/27/out-power-50-most-p...

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