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Emacs 24.4 released

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Re: Emacs 24.4 released

#141

Post by tedunangst »

jmount wrote: post #120
tedunangst wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your key fetching command is vulnerable to the deadbeef attack. That could be anybody's key.

True, I didn't find any notes on what key to use and the key I typed in is the one the signature itself said was missing (so it is in fact a bad choice). Your criticism is valid. Sorry if I misled anyone, I meant to fix that but I didn't find much guidance on the gnu site as to what signatures to load to bootstrap trust.

No worries, end to end PGP leaves a lot to be desired, but I feel it's important to point out when the common recipe steps fail to protect against exactly the adversary one would think they do.

Re: Emacs 24.4 released

#142

Post by deng »

lord_quas wrote: post #107
Igglyboo wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure who's right and I don't even use emacs but I just wanted to point out that emacs has about 400k lines of C and about 1.2m lines of lisp.

This is true, and much of that C is spent implementing the lisp interpreter. I'd love to see how much C is used outside that functionality.

The actual Lisp interpreter is rather tiny compared to the other stuff. Just do a 'ls -l *.c | sort -gk 5' in the src directory. By far the largest file is xdisp.c, which is the redisplay engine, and only a handful of people in the world dare to touch it. Next comes input handling (keyboard.c), then then dealing with coding systems, terminals, win32-API, image handling, windows, processes, buffers, and much more. AFAICS the first file to actually deal with Lisp is lread.c and comes in at #21.

Re: Emacs 24.4 released

#143

Post by tuhdo »

hrjet wrote: post #124

I am not an Emacs user. A long time Vim user who is always on the fence; evil mode got me interested in Emacs again. Can anyone please shed some light on the browser? Is it implemented in pure Lisp? Is it graphical? Does it support javascript?

It supports html and css, but not Javascript. It is implemented in pure Elisp.

I wrote a few introduction guides to Emacs and its ecosystem: http://tuhdo.github.io/ . The guides do not include evil-mode though, as I use Emacs key bindings. But installing evil-mode is easy, and you can immediately use Vim key bindings for editing.

Re: Emacs 24.4 released

#144

Post by simias »

robertfw wrote: post #60
fafner wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well it is limited by Emacs' display engine. It is obviously not supposed to replace your default browser. But it is usually good enough to view html documentation. Which is really something you want inside your editor.

I don't really see this, but perhaps it's because I've been spoiled by the light of tiling windows managers

I haven't used eww but I use emacs-w3m from time to time and even though I use a tiling WM as well it's convenient to have regular editor commands work in the html buffer to copy/paste code snippets. Also stuff like hippie-expand will be able to complete symbols present in the html buffer which is pretty nice.

Re: Emacs 24.4 released

#145

Post by tuhdo »

Derbasti wrote: post #138
Dewie wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been thinking about using a simpler browser for reading simple documents. The motivation is to have a sort of "minimalism", as in using simpler programs to do simple things, and not get easily distracted by all the bells and whistles in a more complex application (like for example Firefox). This, I think, would be aided by using a simpler browser that could for example be run in a virtual terminal for reading th…

I think that there are plenty of people who do what you describe in the terminal.

The Eww browser is fully compatible with terminal if you run Emacs non-window mode (-nw option). It supports both HTML and CSS, and render quite nicely. Much better than any terminal web browser I used.

The browser is for looking up online documentation not available in your local machine. For example, sometime a man page is not available in my local machine. I can invoke a google query right inside Emacs and open it immediately without involving heavy weight browsers.

It is really nice to read online book like Practical Common Lisp: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/, and directly copy the code and paste to your REPL without ever leaving Emacs.

Re: Emacs 24.4 released

#146

Post by chriswarbo »

Derbasti wrote: post #134
ephemeralgomi wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's had w3 for quite a while. 'eww' is new.

IIRC, w3 was an external program while eww is built entirely in elisp.

w3 is written in ELisp and runs in Emacs http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/w3

w3m is an external program, which Emacs has a wrapper for http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/w3m

Re: Emacs 24.4 released

#147

Post by harperlee »

craigching wrote: post #11
baby wrote: post #8

> A built-in web browser (M-x eww) What ! Anyone has screenshots of that? Is there a windows release somewhere?

This is where I generally pick up Windows releases (though I don't use Windows much anymore): http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/emacs/windows/ 24.4 is not yet there though.

Does anybody have an idea of how much time is the windows version release usually delayed? I´m finding myself checking the page frequently, but there's no related info (that I can find, at least)

Re: Emacs 24.4 released

#148

Post by p4bl0 »

fafner wrote: post #12
webkike wrote: post #4

I've been going off like a broken record in the comment pages for these posts, since I'm such an Emacs fanatic. But I'll say it again, this release is great! Rectangular mark mode, better web browser -- Emacs hasn't stopped getting better

Rectangular mark mode is really awesome. It makes working with rectangles a lot easier. It is now so well integrated into my workflow that I'm really annoyed when I have to use an older Emacs version.

I don't understand what is there that I can't do with rectangles in Emacs 24.3 (or even way before).

I can already kill (C-x r k), yank (C-x r y), replace (C-x r t) text in rectangles, insert text after the rectangle (C-x r z) or at the beginning of all the rectangle lines (C-x r a) or their ends (C-x r e).

What else is there?

Re: Emacs 24.4 released

#149

Post by barrkel »

webkike wrote: post #37
melling wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know what Emacs is? It's a big Lisp interpreter. It was made to be extensible so that it could do anything. It could be your IDE, for example. http://cedet.sourceforge.net The problem is that it isn't a good enough Lisp engine to be very good at anything beyond the great text editor, which it has been since the early 1980's. Avoiding the really hard problems and building a better emacs browser doesn't really help…

What? Emacs isn't a big Lisp interpreter. It's a text editor that is extensible with Emacs Lisp. Sure it contains a Lisp interpreter, but saying that Emacs is only a Lisp interpreter implies that the entirety of the text editor is implemented in Lisp, which is clearly not the case. I use Emacs as a text editor, which means I use it to edit anything that has text. Granted that is a huge part of my computing needs. I d…

Without Lisp, or something very like it (and javascript is not good enough), I would not use emacs.

I use emacs as a source navigation and exploration tool, even more than for text editing. Its ability to run code customized to the language and projects I'm working on is far more important than its ability to edit text.

I actually don't like a lot of its text editing functionality, and had to work hard to get things like selection, tab indenting, scrolling etc. to work in a way that didn't drive me up the walls. I had to give up on virtual space, one of the things that stopped me learning it 10 years ago. It's also very hard to record keyboard macros without accidentally cancelling (I tend to press C-g reflexively when I type a wrong shortcut); I use multiple cursors these days instead, even though that is much riskier / harder to use when you can't see the whole buffer / all edit locations on screen at once.

A browser, I don't really need that per se - unless it's linked to library documentation. But it's hard to integrate modern docs without at least understanding HTML, if not HTTP. So I can see the need for a browser implementation.

Re: Emacs 24.4 released

#150

Post by olau »

babarock wrote: post #80
CDRdude wrote: post #65

I'm a comparative youngin to most of the people here, and I've never tried emacs. I'd like to learn my way around it someday, but I don't know how high of a priority I should place on it. I've managed to pick up enough vim to make my life easier, would learning my way around emacs also get me a productivity boost? How good is evil mode?

I spent a couple of years using vim before switching to emacs around 3 years ago. I'll write about my own experience with both editors. Learning emacs won't automatically give you a huge productivity boost the way learning vim does. Vim is this blazing fast editor; it's been designed from the ground up to be good at editing text. If your goal is to increase your productivity, I'd say invest time learning vim advanced…

Did you go through the Emacs tutorial?

Emacs allows you to use basic commands like any other editor, but to be blazingly fast you need to use the controls explained in the tutorial (plus some extra stuff that you can pick up later). The tutorial is not optional if you want to be blazingly fast.

It's probably true that if you come from vim to Emacs that you won't get a huge editing boost as such, but I think the reverse is probably also true.

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