Google play removed my productivity tracking app for spying • Hacker News Board

Re: Google play removed my productivity tracking app for spying

#51

Post by Houshalter » Fri, Oct 17, 2014, 6:48 AM UTC

iandanforth wrote: post #29

notatoad wrote: post #16

from the appeal: "My app helps people avoid pornography by monitoring their actions and reporting those actions to the person they specify" from the features list: "...is hard to circumvent...", "option to remove the icon in the status bar", "Accountability partners are notified if you ever disable the app". it's straight up spyware. it doesn't help you "avoid pornography" by blocking it like you would do if you actu…

You seem to have made up your mind on the intent of the creator, and the intent of its users. A constructive response however would have noted how you think apps with non-malicious intent, targeting people who genuinely want this type of functionality, can distinguish themselves. When I read your response I imagine a description of a hammer, which has "powerful striking force", and "a reinforced tapered claw", and "e…

We can't possibly know what the intentions of the creator are, but it is definitely against the rules and for good reason:

Smartphones Are Used To Stalk, Control Domestic Abuse Victims:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/alltechconsidered/2014/09/15/346149...

>85 percent of the shelters we surveyed say they're working directly with victims whose abusers tracked them using GPS. Seventy-five percent say they're working with victims whose abusers eavesdropped on their conversation remotely — using hidden mobile apps. And nearly half the shelters we surveyed have a policy against using Facebook on premises, because they are concerned a stalker can pinpoint location.

Re: Google play removed my productivity tracking app for spying

#52

Post by duskwuff » Fri, Oct 17, 2014, 7:28 AM UTC

Houshalter wrote: post #51

iandanforth wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to have made up your mind on the intent of the creator, and the intent of its users. A constructive response however would have noted how you think apps with non-malicious intent, targeting people who genuinely want this type of functionality, can distinguish themselves. When I read your response I imagine a description of a hammer, which has "powerful striking force", and "a reinforced tapered claw", and "e…

We can't possibly know what the intentions of the creator are, but it is definitely against the rules and for good reason: Smartphones Are Used To Stalk, Control Domestic Abuse Victims: http://www.npr.org/blogs/alltechconsidered/2014/09/15/346149... >85 percent of the shelters we surveyed say they're working directly with victims whose abusers tracked them using GPS. Seventy-five percent say they're working with vict…

And with this sort of "use case" in mind, the vague name "Ever Accountable", innocuous-looking icon, and evasive description all work to the advantage of abusive users, by making it unclear to device owners exactly what this program is and what it's doing.

Re: Google play removed my productivity tracking app for spying

#53

Post by duskwuff » Fri, Oct 17, 2014, 7:30 AM UTC

manicdee wrote: post #28

lessnonymous wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the take-down advice from Google: "After a regular review, we have determined that this app is promoted as a means of carrying out spying or surreptitious tracking of others." Of others. It's clearly not spying on other people.

It's clearly intended for spying on the person using the device, who may not be the person who owns the device. The obvious example is the use case espoused by the application: you are a business who loans business phones to your staff, or you are a parent wanting to keep tabs on your child, so you install this software, turn on the option to not show in the status bar, and get reports of all activity from the person…

The intended use case is actually a bit stranger: users are intended to install this on their own phone to report their behavior to one or more "accountability partners" so that they will be publicly shamed if they view undesirable material, e.g. pornography.

Re: Google play removed my productivity tracking app for spying

#54

Post by duskwuff » Fri, Oct 17, 2014, 7:34 AM UTC

pgs wrote: post #42

tahooie wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have the persistent notification already. Android lets you remove the notification, so I made it easier for non-savvy people to hide it. I guess I'll take out the easy button, though my competitors all have it. Also, I'll send an email to EVERY registered account on the device when it is set up, instead of only the one they pick. That will make it even harder to use this for spying on someone who doesn't specifical…

> I guess I'll take out the easy button More than that, you need to make the persistent notification unremovable.

And, ideally, make the notification contain text that makes the application's ongoing behavior completely clear, e.g.

"Your Internet browsing and application usage are being monitored by EverAccountable, and will be reported to ."

If the application's intent is indeed to keep its users "accountable", then surely reminding the user that they are being tracked, and by whom, should only enhance this purpose.

Re: Google play removed my productivity tracking app for spying

#55

Post by godzilla82 » Fri, Oct 17, 2014, 7:47 AM UTC

skyjacker wrote: post #27

notatoad wrote: post #16

from the appeal: "My app helps people avoid pornography by monitoring their actions and reporting those actions to the person they specify" from the features list: "...is hard to circumvent...", "option to remove the icon in the status bar", "Accountability partners are notified if you ever disable the app". it's straight up spyware. it doesn't help you "avoid pornography" by blocking it like you would do if you actu…

Spyware is typically unknown to the user, hence the word "spy". In this case, the developer is 100% transparent and users are paying for these features. Tracking and accountability are accurate descriptions here.

I am having a hard time understanding your target audience. Why would anyone willingly give someone else a list of all the things they have been upto.

Re: Google play removed my productivity tracking app for spying

#56

Post by wutbrodo » Fri, Oct 17, 2014, 8:45 AM UTC

iandanforth wrote: post #29

notatoad wrote: post #16

from the appeal: "My app helps people avoid pornography by monitoring their actions and reporting those actions to the person they specify" from the features list: "...is hard to circumvent...", "option to remove the icon in the status bar", "Accountability partners are notified if you ever disable the app". it's straight up spyware. it doesn't help you "avoid pornography" by blocking it like you would do if you actu…

You seem to have made up your mind on the intent of the creator, and the intent of its users. A constructive response however would have noted how you think apps with non-malicious intent, targeting people who genuinely want this type of functionality, can distinguish themselves. When I read your response I imagine a description of a hammer, which has "powerful striking force", and "a reinforced tapered claw", and "e…

> A constructive response however would have noted how you think apps with non-malicious intent, targeting people who genuinely want this type of functionality, can distinguish themselves.

I would've thought this was obvious. As stated in the comment that you're responding to, a persistent notification in the status bar.

Re: Google play removed my productivity tracking app for spying

#57

Post by wodenokoto » Fri, Oct 17, 2014, 10:17 AM UTC

iandanforth wrote: post #29

notatoad wrote: post #16

from the appeal: "My app helps people avoid pornography by monitoring their actions and reporting those actions to the person they specify" from the features list: "...is hard to circumvent...", "option to remove the icon in the status bar", "Accountability partners are notified if you ever disable the app". it's straight up spyware. it doesn't help you "avoid pornography" by blocking it like you would do if you actu…

You seem to have made up your mind on the intent of the creator, and the intent of its users. A constructive response however would have noted how you think apps with non-malicious intent, targeting people who genuinely want this type of functionality, can distinguish themselves. When I read your response I imagine a description of a hammer, which has "powerful striking force", and "a reinforced tapered claw", and "e…

As I understand it the purpose of the app is that given you know your wife is watching your internet history, you won't go on youporn.

So how does this monitoring help you clean up your internet activities if you don't know you are being monitored? While the app should let the guardian know when it is being disabled, it also needs to let you disable it and more importantly let you know that it is running.

Once those 2 things are removed it is no longer a productivity app, but a spy app.