Google play removed my productivity tracking app for spying • Hacker News Board

Re: Google play removed my productivity tracking app for spying

#21

Post by UnoriginalGuy » Fri, Oct 17, 2014, 2:47 AM UTC

McDiesel wrote: post #15

Firstly, im not saying this to be a dick... but it sounds dickish... sorry. What it comes down to, is that its foolish to rely on a business that lives entirely in someone else's garden... if google play just shut down tomorrow (i know, not likely, but you never know with the way patent trolls are these days) then you'd be just as screwed... if you base your livelihood on a business you own that is in and of itself r…

This attitude is tiresome and unrealistic.

There are a lot of businesses based on iOS/Mac app stores, Play Store, Amazon's EC2 infrastructure, Amazon's seller marketplace, eBay/PayPal, reselling (e.g. domains, hosting, etc), which won't meet your criteria.

Now let's look at non-digital goods: All new car dealerships, every shop in rental space (which is almost all of them), all airlines, in fact all airport-located businesses, government contractors, all franchises, et al.

So what businesses exist which aren't reliant on a third party? If we ignore government as a "third party," there still aren't very many. Most businesses rely in some part or a large part on a third party.

Re: Google play removed my productivity tracking app for spying

#22

Post by anigbrowl » Fri, Oct 17, 2014, 2:49 AM UTC

xdd wrote: post #10

anigbrowl wrote: post #3

I hate posts like this. The app has been removed from the Google play store, so now we have no way to look at the marketing materials and offer suggestions for how they might be changed or what the problem might be. Yes, app stores should be more responsive, but there's no point in wringing your hands saying 'what could be the problem' when you leave readers in the dark like this. At least paste in the original marke…

My concern is where the pivot point is. Sure Google should remove if any APPs' idea is to spy people. However that made Google/APPLE too much power over developers or users. What if I want my dog has a smart phone spy mode: "on" so I can find him when he's lost? If giant companies can control what you can publish today, they can control what layout you should have on your APPs next week, they can control what content…

But you could already set your dog up with a smartphone and turn location tracking on. In fact I was looking at that exact setting on my Android phone today, and as a dog woner who sometimes looks after other people's dogs I have thought about this functionality, to go in a small collar device or something.

but that's not spy ware. Spy ware is where you report on location or something but conceal that from the person using the phone.

Re: Google play removed my productivity tracking app for spying

#23

Post by general_failure » Fri, Oct 17, 2014, 2:56 AM UTC

Well, this is the world we live in. A world moderated by apple and google. We have to play by their rules. It suck but its a future we have collectively chosen.

Re: Google play removed my productivity tracking app for spying

#24

Post by piyush_soni » Fri, Oct 17, 2014, 2:57 AM UTC

Sonicmouse wrote: post #13

It's a shit business model to rely on Google or apple got your pay check via the App Store. I've said it 1000 times. There is a story like this once a month where an entire company gets shut down because you get on apples's bad side or google decides they no longer need you. Walled Gardens are shit. Even on google. Android is "Free and open" my ass.

Well, theoretically (& technically) it IS 'free and open' (just that you won't get Google play services if you want it that way, but there are manufacturers which make Android phones without these services) - but yes, your first comment is still right - relying your whole business on Google or Apple app store is just not very good.

Re: Google play removed my productivity tracking app for spying

#25

Post by lessnonymous » Fri, Oct 17, 2014, 3:07 AM UTC

notatoad wrote: post #16

from the appeal: "My app helps people avoid pornography by monitoring their actions and reporting those actions to the person they specify" from the features list: "...is hard to circumvent...", "option to remove the icon in the status bar", "Accountability partners are notified if you ever disable the app". it's straight up spyware. it doesn't help you "avoid pornography" by blocking it like you would do if you actu…

From the take-down advice from Google:

"After a regular review, we have determined that this app is promoted as a means of carrying out spying or surreptitious tracking of others."

Of others. It's clearly not spying on other people.

Re: Google play removed my productivity tracking app for spying

#26

Post by IBM » Fri, Oct 17, 2014, 3:09 AM UTC

The walled garden strikes again.

Re: Google play removed my productivity tracking app for spying

#27

Post by skyjacker » Fri, Oct 17, 2014, 3:10 AM UTC

notatoad wrote: post #16

from the appeal: "My app helps people avoid pornography by monitoring their actions and reporting those actions to the person they specify" from the features list: "...is hard to circumvent...", "option to remove the icon in the status bar", "Accountability partners are notified if you ever disable the app". it's straight up spyware. it doesn't help you "avoid pornography" by blocking it like you would do if you actu…

Spyware is typically unknown to the user, hence the word "spy". In this case, the developer is 100% transparent and users are paying for these features.

Tracking and accountability are accurate descriptions here.

Re: Google play removed my productivity tracking app for spying

#28

Post by manicdee » Fri, Oct 17, 2014, 3:19 AM UTC

lessnonymous wrote: post #25

notatoad wrote: post #16

from the appeal: "My app helps people avoid pornography by monitoring their actions and reporting those actions to the person they specify" from the features list: "...is hard to circumvent...", "option to remove the icon in the status bar", "Accountability partners are notified if you ever disable the app". it's straight up spyware. it doesn't help you "avoid pornography" by blocking it like you would do if you actu…

From the take-down advice from Google: "After a regular review, we have determined that this app is promoted as a means of carrying out spying or surreptitious tracking of others." Of others. It's clearly not spying on other people.

It's clearly intended for spying on the person using the device, who may not be the person who owns the device. The obvious example is the use case espoused by the application: you are a business who loans business phones to your staff, or you are a parent wanting to keep tabs on your child, so you install this software, turn on the option to not show in the status bar, and get reports of all activity from the person actually using that corporate phone.

Re: Google play removed my productivity tracking app for spying

#29

Post by iandanforth » Fri, Oct 17, 2014, 3:20 AM UTC

notatoad wrote: post #16

from the appeal: "My app helps people avoid pornography by monitoring their actions and reporting those actions to the person they specify" from the features list: "...is hard to circumvent...", "option to remove the icon in the status bar", "Accountability partners are notified if you ever disable the app". it's straight up spyware. it doesn't help you "avoid pornography" by blocking it like you would do if you actu…

You seem to have made up your mind on the intent of the creator, and the intent of its users. A constructive response however would have noted how you think apps with non-malicious intent, targeting people who genuinely want this type of functionality, can distinguish themselves.

When I read your response I imagine a description of a hammer, which has "powerful striking force", and "a reinforced tapered claw", and "extra long handle for extra reach and leverage." Clearly this is nudge nudge, wink wink, targeting people who want to use it to hit other people.

As someone who has installed productivity apps that were too easy to remove and specifically appreciates one of the features you derisively called out, I think you owe the creator an apology.

Re: Google play removed my productivity tracking app for spying

#30

Post by natch » Fri, Oct 17, 2014, 3:22 AM UTC

skyjacker wrote: post #27

notatoad wrote: post #16

from the appeal: "My app helps people avoid pornography by monitoring their actions and reporting those actions to the person they specify" from the features list: "...is hard to circumvent...", "option to remove the icon in the status bar", "Accountability partners are notified if you ever disable the app". it's straight up spyware. it doesn't help you "avoid pornography" by blocking it like you would do if you actu…

Spyware is typically unknown to the user, hence the word "spy". In this case, the developer is 100% transparent and users are paying for these features. Tracking and accountability are accurate descriptions here.

In real life, people can and do install apps on the devices of other people.

You ignore this possibility, but let's not pretend: The app can be installed by a suspicious family member who knows the password (as many family members do, in the real off-HN world), and then hidden from the user of the device.

This is absolutely the definition of spyware, even if the author either A) sincerely believes there is a legitimate purpose here, or B) contrived a clever cover story for it.

I don't know which is true, A or B, but it's quite remarkable that people would supposedly sign their real names to reviews of such an app.