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Amazon Must Be Stopped

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Re: Amazon Must Be Stopped

#51

Post by emotionalcode »

netcan wrote: post #22

We have to remember that when we talking about giant companies we are talking about giant institutions, of a form and culture that has not existed in human history. The closest parallels common throughout human history are armies. I think that our 20th century paradigms have failed to understand and shape these institutions, each with their own trappings. Labour unionism, which was deeply rooted in man labour culture…

Evolution of human culture can either be recognized as a consciously directed emergent property or it can be consciously ignored and instead directed by the unification of unspoken (but existent) belief systems of the majority. Cultural evolution isn't magic. There are properties that can be recognized for what they are and what role they play in the development of culture.

I think it is disingenuous to point out the size of institution versus the capability of the mind to analyze and distill what goes on. The law is supposed to be blind. That means to me, the law should be sound on its own ground, without being dependent on rhetorical arguments that paint possibly sneaky incentives over as abstract 'biological cultural sociological imperatives'.

I think for the nature of this argument, understanding the broad picture is complicated and takes time, caution, and care, neither of which can be established through armchair analysis. Implementation is different than theory.

Re: Amazon Must Be Stopped

#52

Post by schalab »

Can someone provide practical examples of how Amazon would possibly abuse their monopoly without breaching existing law, influencing the government, or opening up the market for a smaller, more agile competitor?

It is strange picking on Amazon, as the barrier for entry into the online shopping industry is relatively low, and their monopoly is far less stable and enduring than what Microsoft and Google achieved.

Re: Amazon Must Be Stopped

#53

Post by dkarapetyan »

jamespo wrote: post #32
dkarapetyan wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure but that still doesn't address the actual problem and from a certain viewpoint two companies doing the same thing is less efficient than a large company doing it because of economies of scale. So which is it? Do we want efficiency or fairness?

Maybe we should no longer have elections as there's a lot of duplication between > 1 political parties too

There is an entire field of mathematics dedicated to answering such questions and the answer is a lot more complicated than your simple quip. In fact the way most democracies are set up they are theoretically much less optimal than they could be and in some cases are as good as dictatorial systems because of susceptibility to being rigged. As usual wikipedia is a pretty good starting point: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_system.

Re: Amazon Must Be Stopped

#54

Post by VexXtreme »

mercurial wrote: post #11
VexXtreme wrote: post #7

It seems as though the author has a problem with capitalism and free markets in general. Yes, let's abolish capitalism, allow some central bureau to fix prices and use its power of violence over actors who don't comply. Oh wait... it was attempted 90 years ago and it didn't work out.

Are markets where one player enjoys a monopoly "free"? > Oh wait... it was tried 90 years ago and it didn't work out. Whether the current system is working is up for debate.

If a monopoly spontaneously emerges out of a free market, whereby no violence or coercion was used against other participants, then that business was simply better and more efficient at giving the market what it wants. It also doubles as a price signal to others that something in their way of doing business is inefficient and wasteful (or just not as efficient as the most efficient participant).

I don't have a problem with such "monopolies", because they aren't real monopolies. As long as the market is still open to new participants, then it's not really an issue. For example, if a monopolist starts raising prices and hoarding supplies in order to artificially elevate prices, then new participants can enter the market and make money off the delta between the new prices and the old prices that made sense to the market.

Re: Amazon Must Be Stopped

#55

Post by VexXtreme »

rtpg wrote: post #15
VexXtreme wrote: post #7

It seems as though the author has a problem with capitalism and free markets in general. Yes, let's abolish capitalism, allow some central bureau to fix prices and use its power of violence over actors who don't comply. Oh wait... it was attempted 90 years ago and it didn't work out.

If a single player can move the market, then it's not a free market. You can throw out all the theories about economic efficiency when we reach that point.

See my reply to the poster below you.

Re: Amazon Must Be Stopped

#56

Post by humanrebar »

tzs wrote: post #31
spacefight wrote: post #3

Brilliant piece, also in comparison to Walmart: "Meanwhile, both companies have studiously avoided unionization and treat their workers miserably. In one famous incident, Amazon hired paramedics to revive heat-sick employees at a Pennsylvania warehouse rather than buy an air-conditioning unit."

The Supreme Court heard oral arguments today in a case involving Amazon working conditions, although the workers involved are actually employees of Integrity Staffing Solutions, Inc., which provides staffers for Amazon warehouses. The workers are required to go through security screening at the end of their shifts, to make sure they aren't stealing from Amazon. There are only two check stations for the entire warehou…

Not germane to this case, but I've recently started to wonder why employers aren't more responsible for commute times. There aren't really incentives to situate places of employment in affordable neighborhoods.

Long commute times end up being a regressive drain on the time of employees, and employers bear no responsibility to alleviate the problem though they are complicit in its creation.

Re: Amazon Must Be Stopped

#57

Post by humanrebar »

marbletiles wrote: post #42
dkarapetyan wrote: post #6

Hmm, then we also need to stop Google, Microsoft, Facebook, Dropbox, TimeWarner Cable, military industrial complex, some big oil companies, a few hedge funds, a few banks, etc. Probably might as well call it quits with this whole capitalism thing. In all seriousness though why don't any of these articles ever address the underlying issue of why this stuff happens. If you have a certain kind of economic system then so…

There aren't many things on that list that we wouldn't be better off without. Is that really what you meant? You're in favour of big oil companies, hedge funds and the military-industrial complex? The latter is particularly surprising, unless you think 50% of America's budget going on weaponry to fight threats that don't exist is a productive use of capital

> unless you think 50% of America's budget going on weaponry to fight threats that don't exist is a productive use of capital

That is flatly not true. Where do you get your numbers?

Re: Amazon Must Be Stopped

#58

Post by pestaa »

marbletiles wrote: post #42
dkarapetyan wrote: post #6

Hmm, then we also need to stop Google, Microsoft, Facebook, Dropbox, TimeWarner Cable, military industrial complex, some big oil companies, a few hedge funds, a few banks, etc. Probably might as well call it quits with this whole capitalism thing. In all seriousness though why don't any of these articles ever address the underlying issue of why this stuff happens. If you have a certain kind of economic system then so…

There aren't many things on that list that we wouldn't be better off without. Is that really what you meant? You're in favour of big oil companies, hedge funds and the military-industrial complex? The latter is particularly surprising, unless you think 50% of America's budget going on weaponry to fight threats that don't exist is a productive use of capital

Not as a call for citation as I have some basic understanding, but I'd like to learn more about why those threats are considered non-existent and why the USA keeps fighting them.

Re: Amazon Must Be Stopped

#59

Post by yulaow »

davidw wrote: post #50
yulaow wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google also avoid to pay almost all the taxes it should in EU without anyone capable to stop them. The same thing is done by the others megacorps

Actually, it looks like you, too, may be incorrect, in that they're working to crack down on just that: http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/ba95cff0-4fcd-11e4-a0a4-00144... Also, in the United States, Amazon has generally not fared well when it came to avoiding collecting local taxes when local authorities decided to put their feet down: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_tax

As an eu citizen I knew that, and I can tell you they are "working on it" since decades of years (almost since Apple for the first time implemented it around the '80s), Nothing changed because Ireland doesn't want to change its taxation because the corps on its field lobby under the threat to move to another country, and the EU commission has not the power to impose the change to Ireland.

Re: Amazon Must Be Stopped

#60

Post by VexXtreme »

dasil003 wrote: post #34
VexXtreme wrote: post #7

It seems as though the author has a problem with capitalism and free markets in general. Yes, let's abolish capitalism, allow some central bureau to fix prices and use its power of violence over actors who don't comply. Oh wait... it was attempted 90 years ago and it didn't work out.

Just because Marx failed to provide a solution doesn't mean he was wrong about the problem. The underpaid workers at Amazon are just a symptom of the extreme consolidation of wealth that is slowly but steadily undermining the entire basis of the type of prosperous rising-tide-lifts-all-boats capitalism that was the foundation of America's 20th century growth. We're facing real problems in the near future that neither…

The workers are paid what the market is willing to pay them. If there is an inefficiency/mispricing and someone can get better compensation elsewhere (for the same skill set, presumably), then it makes sense for them to arbitrage that gap and change employers. If enough people leave Amazon, then Amazon will have to start paying people better, and ultimately, the gap will close.
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