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Amazon Must Be Stopped

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31–40 of 106 posts

Re: Amazon Must Be Stopped

#31

Brilliant piece, also in comparison to Walmart: "Meanwhile, both companies have studiously avoided unionization and treat their workers miserably. In one famous incident, Amazon hired paramedics to revive heat-sick employees at a Pennsylvania warehouse rather than buy an air-conditioning unit."

The Supreme Court heard oral arguments today in a case involving Amazon working conditions, although the workers involved are actually employees of Integrity Staffing Solutions, Inc., which provides staffers for Amazon warehouses.

The workers are required to go through security screening at the end of their shifts, to make sure they aren't stealing from Amazon. There are only two check stations for the entire warehouse they work in, and it often takes workers 25 minutes to get through the line and leave.

They are required to clock out BEFORE they get in line, so that's 25 unpaid minutes.

The workers won in the 9th Circuit, and that spawned several class action suits seeking compensation for about 100000 workers who are subject to post-shift security screenings. CVS Pharmacy and Apple are also facing such suits.

The company is arguing that time waiting in line for a security check is similar to commuting time, which companies do not have to pay for. That law is that employers have to pay for things that are "integral and indispensable part of the principal activities" of the job. Several Justices seemed skeptical that this covered security screenings on exit--it's not a principal activity of the job.

The lawyer for the employees argued that an employee is hired to do what he's told to do, and so should be paid for things that the employer requires him to do.

Some Justices did seem receptive to the worker's case. Justice Kagan noted that what makes Amazon special is that they have a better inventory control system than their competitors, and it is very important for them to know where everything is. Merchandise security is a principle activity of Amazon's operations, and so the security checks would be a principle activity of the job.

The Obama administration is siding with Amazon.

Re: Amazon Must Be Stopped

#32
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that's why anti-trust laws exist. If we break them up as they grow, we still reap the benefits of economic growth without the dangers of the monopoly.

Sure but that still doesn't address the actual problem and from a certain viewpoint two companies doing the same thing is less efficient than a large company doing it because of economies of scale. So which is it? Do we want efficiency or fairness?

Maybe we should no longer have elections as there's a lot of duplication between > 1 political parties too

Re: Amazon Must Be Stopped

#33

At least for ebooks it recently occurred to me that it will probably be difficult for any ebook vendor to establish a monopoly. After all, everybody can just offer ebooks on their web site.

Right, book publishers are largely middlemen. Let the old ways die and a hundred new business models flourish.

Re: Amazon Must Be Stopped

#34

It seems as though the author has a problem with capitalism and free markets in general. Yes, let's abolish capitalism, allow some central bureau to fix prices and use its power of violence over actors who don't comply. Oh wait... it was attempted 90 years ago and it didn't work out.

Just because Marx failed to provide a solution doesn't mean he was wrong about the problem. The underpaid workers at Amazon are just a symptom of the extreme consolidation of wealth that is slowly but steadily undermining the entire basis of the type of prosperous rising-tide-lifts-all-boats capitalism that was the foundation of America's 20th century growth. We're facing real problems in the near future that neither Capitalism nor Communism has the answer to.

Re: Amazon Must Be Stopped

#35
post #22

We have to remember that when we talking about giant companies we are talking about giant institutions, of a form and culture that has not existed in human history. The closest parallels common throughout human history are armies. I think that our 20th century paradigms have failed to understand and shape these institutions, each with their own trappings. Labour unionism, which was deeply rooted in man labour culture…

> For Amazon, what's keeping them huge is ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economies_of_scale

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_the_firm

Re: Amazon Must Be Stopped

#36
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that's why anti-trust laws exist. If we break them up as they grow, we still reap the benefits of economic growth without the dangers of the monopoly.

Sure but that still doesn't address the actual problem and from a certain viewpoint two companies doing the same thing is less efficient than a large company doing it because of economies of scale. So which is it? Do we want efficiency or fairness?

Fairness. When would we ever want anything that is efficiently unfair?

Two companies doing the same thing brings the benefits of competition, which forces down prices, promotes innovation, and actually increases efficiency as they have to be better than their rival. In addition, no reason why both of them cannot be large enough to benefit from economies of scale (think Samsung vs Apple for smartphones).

Re: Amazon Must Be Stopped

#37
The solution is some variation of Richard Stallman's proposal for banks that are 'Too Big To Fail.'

http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2013/02/04/fixing-too-...

Economies of scale are good but I think we're entering a world where the negatives are growing too rapidly. If the economy consisted of more small companies, there would be more competition, more employment, and more innovation. And, per Stallman, it can all be rigged with the tax code.

Re: Amazon Must Be Stopped

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are those the same people whose jobs were lost due to Walmart and Amazon? Or who prefer to have a vibrant local downtown?

If you want a job, why not just dig a hole in the street and try to get paid for it? That would not be different from keeping a job that is not needed anymore alive just for the sake of the job. If you feel bad about Amazon, donate 10% of what you buy at Amazon to a "hole digger foundation" which pays people who lost their jobs because of Amazon to dig holes.

There's a tragedy of the commons at work here. Amazon is playing in a new global marketplace, and the unquestioned assumption is that the lower prices that result for consumers are an overall good for society.

But there are plenty of indications that's not true, and that minimally higher prices spread across millions of customers that in turn support millions more local jobs may be better for society overall.

Arguing that a job is "not needed anymore" in this case is like arguing "keeping your own field that is not needed anymore" is stupid just because there's some new common grazing ground opened up.

Re: Amazon Must Be Stopped

#40
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want a job, why not just dig a hole in the street and try to get paid for it? That would not be different from keeping a job that is not needed anymore alive just for the sake of the job. If you feel bad about Amazon, donate 10% of what you buy at Amazon to a "hole digger foundation" which pays people who lost their jobs because of Amazon to dig holes.

[deleted]

If that's what consumers decide they want, then I don't think its wrong to say that is their purpose.

It's kinda sad to see them go, but that's OK. We no longer see as many of the beautiful locomotives as we used to, even though they where excellently engineered with tremendous history. But that's OK, since they've been replaced by other means of transportation/shipping.

Things change, sometimes that sucks. We all move on and try to make a more awesome world in other ways.

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