Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Microsoft CEO says women need not ask for raise, should trust system

foxbusiness.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 95 posts

Re: Microsoft CEO says women need not ask for raise, should trust system

#61

Post by neilellis »

verroq wrote: post #57
neilellis wrote: post #25

The essential problem here is that we're still talking about men telling women what they need to do. Because, hey it's their problem. Let's just get it clear, it is all about what we (men) need to do. Slavery wasn't an African person's fault. Xenophobia isn't a problem for foreigners to sort out. There is nothing wrong with realising that we have a privilege over another group in society and making efforts to become…

The downvotes are for your man-splaining. Your status as privileged group invalidates everything you say.

When I wrote the comment below the question was to the effect of "How is there privilege for men in Tech", it has since been edited.

> It's almost impossible to avoid it and I have certainly done my bit to make it worse when I was younger (and probably still do a little).

> However, I would rather a female commenter answer this from her direct experience.

Re: Microsoft CEO says women need not ask for raise, should trust system

#62

Post by nickbauman »

anigbrowl wrote: post #45
nickbauman wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which implies that the solution to the problem is to LOWER the pay of men to match the pay of women. I think the term "unintended consequences" can be writ large here by now.

It implies no such thing.

Just so I understand: what DOES the statement imply? Think of me as mentally deficient here and explain it like you'd explain it to an 8 year old.

Re: Microsoft CEO says women need not ask for raise, should trust system

#63

Post by Dylan16807 »

neilellis wrote: post #32
neilellis wrote: post #25

The essential problem here is that we're still talking about men telling women what they need to do. Because, hey it's their problem. Let's just get it clear, it is all about what we (men) need to do. Slavery wasn't an African person's fault. Xenophobia isn't a problem for foreigners to sort out. There is nothing wrong with realising that we have a privilege over another group in society and making efforts to become…

PPPS: Thanks for those who voted back up. Would be nice to know the reasons for down votes still. Wouldn't it be quite easy to prompt a down voter for a reason and display that reason. Thus encouraging responsible downvoting?

Okay, fine. I downvoted you because you seem to be blaming him for answering a direct question and also for saying it's women's problem when he said it was management's responsibility.

I can't tell for sure if you're actually blaming him or explaining yourself in a confusing way, but both of those are bad.

You make valid points, but the way you tied them into the conversation makes your point confusing and/or non-sequitur-insulting, so I think it's a bad comment.

Re: Microsoft CEO says women need not ask for raise, should trust system

#64

Post by verroq »

neilellis wrote: post #61
verroq wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The downvotes are for your man-splaining. Your status as privileged group invalidates everything you say.

When I wrote the comment below the question was to the effect of "How is there privilege for men in Tech", it has since been edited. > It's almost impossible to avoid it and I have certainly done my bit to make it worse when I was younger (and probably still do a little). > However, I would rather a female commenter answer this from her direct experience.

/sarcasm

Was going to ask a serious question, then changed my mind.

Re: Microsoft CEO says women need not ask for raise, should trust system

#65

Post by adventured »

blergh123 wrote: post #35

I'm actually surprised at how many people in the comments want to immediately defend or explain away his comments. It's pretty clear he meant what he said, and is now on the back foot attempting to undo the damage he did. Why does this kind of behavior need to be excused as 'out of context' or 'trolling'?

Best guess here, is that it's because a lot of people like Satya and have been optimistic about what he might do at Microsoft.

If a bigger jerk said the same thing, you wouldn't see as many people seeking to explain it away. I think people naturally prefer to give a much greater benefit of the doubt to someone they think is nice.

Also, as a new CEO in a very difficult job with high levels of 24/7 scrutiny, there's likely to be an inclination to not light the guy on fire over his first misstep or three (even if it's offensive).

Re: Microsoft CEO says women need not ask for raise, should trust system

#66

Post by andlarry »

forrestthewoods wrote: post #59
yzzxy wrote: post #13

His response to the response: "Was inarticulate re how women should ask for raise. Our industry must close gender pay gap so a raise is not needed because of a bias #GHC14" https://twitter.com/satyanadella/status/520311425726566400

Protip: If you are a man you should reject any invitation to speak at a women's focused conference. At this conference in particular there was a bingo sheet for statements made by men. Any misstep will turn into a headline. It's crazy dangerous. Attendees also questioned, perhaps fairly even, a particular panel session that all men. Why were they there? Because they were invited! The only rational response is to turn…

> Why were they there? Because they were invited! The only rational response is to turn down such an invitation in the future.

The Ada Initiative recommends[1] responding thusly:

* Respond saying that you'd be honored, but the panel seems awfully heavy on the men, and can they find a qualified woman to join the panel? Here are some suggestions.

* Respond saying that you have taken a pledge not to participate in all-male panels from now on, but you'd be happy to join if a qualified woman is added.

* If you can't accept, suggest a qualified woman to take your place.

[1] http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Allies_training#Scenario:...

Re: Microsoft CEO says women need not ask for raise, should trust system

#67

Post by rescendent »

ChristopherM wrote: post #52

This is horrible advice, men and women both must push for a raise, companies will absolutely under no circumstances just give away raises because "it's the right thing to do". Case in point, I am a white male. When I started working at a company over a decade ago I also started at the same time as another white male. I started at $55k, he started at $52k I negotiated for an additional $3k from the start. The first ye…

It was a snippet from a very long interview where almost all of what he said was good.

However, in this answer, I can see why the CEO of a 120k employee company is not going to say "get pushy with your salary" else he's have a pay rise revolt with people's justification being "your boss', boss', boss' boss told me to"

Re: Microsoft CEO says women need not ask for raise, should trust system

#68

Post by neilellis »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #63
neilellis wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PPPS: Thanks for those who voted back up. Would be nice to know the reasons for down votes still. Wouldn't it be quite easy to prompt a down voter for a reason and display that reason. Thus encouraging responsible downvoting?

Okay, fine. I downvoted you because you seem to be blaming him for answering a direct question and also for saying it's women's problem when he said it was management's responsibility. I can't tell for sure if you're actually blaming him or explaining yourself in a confusing way, but both of those are bad. You make valid points , but the way you tied them into the conversation makes your point confusing and/or non-se…

Can you see from my point of view though. That while making a valid comment which didn't include flamebait or hate etc. I see my comment goes to zero and is greyed out. It's pretty disheartening and unwelcoming to have that done to you. I apologise to others about this 'meta'-conversation but I do think it matters - as it genuinely discourages me from sharing my thoughts and may do the same to otehrs.

Re: Microsoft CEO says women need not ask for raise, should trust system

#69

Post by jacalata »

apetresc wrote: post #60
jacalata wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they usually mean "much lower black and hispanic representation than demographics would suggest". The population of the USA is 13% black and 17% hispanic [0] - Microsoft employees are 4% black and 5% hispanic. [1] The coincidentally similar percentage of white people in the two groups is because MS has a far higher representation of Asians than the general population. [0] - http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/st…

Then why don't they say that? It seems more damaging to use an obviously absurd euphemism.

Lazy thinking.

Re: Microsoft CEO says women need not ask for raise, should trust system

#70

Post by uaygsfdbzf »

neilellis wrote: post #38
hawkice wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One possibility (as someone who did not downvote) that could lead well-meaning people to sincerely disagree with you: Your framing of the problem of empowering professional women treats women as professional objects being acting upon by men, and not professional subjects of their own destiny. Many could see your proposal as perhaps self-defeating.

That's totally fair enough, but I don't believe that down-voting should be done on opinion - as it can bury a point of view. Very happy with people disagree-ing with me that's their prerogative of course! But down-voting someone is like flagging them. You should upvote something because you think it's a good comment. But never downvote unless the comment is abusive, flamebait etc. anyway IMHO :-)

You're free to use votes as you please, but down-voting is not at all flagging for abuse, and there's no reason people should have to treat it as such.

This has come up a few times in the past, but https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=117171 shows that downvotes are clearly not just a flagging mechanism for abusive content.

Post reply on HN