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Microsoft CEO says women need not ask for raise, should trust system

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Re: Microsoft CEO says women need not ask for raise, should trust system

#22
post #6
post #4

Not asking for raise is "good karma". Why would anyone want to work for Microsoft at this point if they have options?

Apparently he also said "That's good karma. It will come back," Nadella said. "That's the kind of person that I want to trust, that I want to give more responsibility to." http://www.theverge.com/2014/10/9/6953697/microsoft-ceo-saty...

This reminds me of David Graeber's bullshit jobs[1] thesis, that those doing more "real work" tend to get paid less because real work is enjoyable. It sounds awfully like Nadella is saying that "more responsibility" might be a substitute for better pay, and that people should be happy with that.

[1] http://strikemag.org/bullshit-jobs/

Re: Microsoft CEO says women need not ask for raise, should trust system

#23
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://readwrite.com/2014/10/09/nadella-women-dont-ask-for-r... has a better write up, in my opinion. this was at the annual grace hopper celebration of women in computing and was not out of context / said ironically.

>> Twenty-nine percent of the general Microsoft workforce is female, and in the U.S., almost 61% is white. Can someone give me an american perspective on why Americans find 61% white to be an unacceptable thing considering 60-70% of american population identifies as white and America still predominantly is a white country.

It's the same as any other agenda-driven statistics. It's based on the interpretation the author/speaker is looking for, not any sort of greater context or meaning.

Critical thinking is hard for everyone. And escaping own's own biases is difficult even when you are aware of those you hold.

Re: Microsoft CEO says women need not ask for raise, should trust system

#24
I haven't seen the full context, but I believe the statements may have been offered with an implicit, "in an ideal, properly functioning system".

That is, less "don't ask for a raise", more "you shouldn't have to ask, pick a place that does it automatically [my goal for Microsoft]".

Of course, there are still problems with that approach: the salary incentives are never fully aligned, and even if you achieved that harmony of salaries-and-value for a short while, it would drift out of alignment. Workers demanding raises or managers cutting the overpaid would then both be required.

But I can see why a large-company CEO like Nadella would hold out the ideal of smooth, regular, equitable, no-exceptional-requests salary adjustments. That's something big companies can systematize much more easily than little ones.

Re: Microsoft CEO says women need not ask for raise, should trust system

#25
The essential problem here is that we're still talking about men telling women what they need to do. Because, hey it's their problem.

Let's just get it clear, it is all about what we (men) need to do. Slavery wasn't an African person's fault. Xenophobia isn't a problem for foreigners to sort out.

There is nothing wrong with realising that we have a privilege over another group in society and making efforts to become aware of that and to work against it as best we can. What is wrong is assuming it's something that the people we have privilege over need to combat themselves.

One last analogy:

Hey poor person, work harder and then you can inherit money like I did.

PS: Can someone explain the downvote? (PPS: it would be nice for reasons to be given for downvotes, because as a frequent user, commenter and submitter it feels pretty rubbish being down-voted without knowing why)

Re: Microsoft CEO says women need not ask for raise, should trust system

#26
Personally speaking, I worked 2+ years at a company where I slowly realized that I was worth more than what I was being paid. I didn't push for a raise very hard, but the more responsibilities I acquired, the more products I built, the more customers I interacted with, I thought it would be more than fair to increase my compensation.

Every single request was met with a "we'll speak about this at a better time." I would just smile, nod and go back to work. It made me feel bad about myself from the standpoint that maybe I wasn't worth that. Then of course come the friends and family that ask whether I've gotten that raise yet (always a fun conversation..).

I learned that if you want something, you need to go out and get it. If you sit there waiting for a raise, you will never receive one.

So I left the company and found a new job with better pay.

It sucks because not everyone has that option (I'm a stupid, young, single person) and it shouldn't come down to that - but it is a reality of the business world. The fact that the CEO of Microsoft so naively believes that this is how things work is somewhat unsettling.

Re: Microsoft CEO says women need not ask for raise, should trust system

#27
post #20
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Different people are worth different amounts for the same role." But are not worth different amounts because of their sex.

It's impossible to infer what a female is worth because you can't even infer what a male is worth.

I don't think that came across the way you meant it...

Re: Microsoft CEO says women need not ask for raise, should trust system

#30
post #13

His response to the response: "Was inarticulate re how women should ask for raise. Our industry must close gender pay gap so a raise is not needed because of a bias #GHC14" https://twitter.com/satyanadella/status/520311425726566400

Which implies that the solution to the problem is to LOWER the pay of men to match the pay of women. I think the term "unintended consequences" can be writ large here by now.
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