India, U.S. Agree to Joint Exploration of Mars • Hacker News Board

Re: India, U.S. Agree to Joint Exploration of Mars

#51

Post by ximeng » Thu, Oct 02, 2014, 5:14 PM UTC

simonh wrote: post #45

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More like there are a billion of them, and I'm sure they see us as morally inferior, just as you see them. I'm here to understand the issues and make my own decision. Haven't you ever wondered about something that you knew nothing about? How would you learn about it other than reading and asking questions? I have no idea how you concluded that I might be trolling, especially after I both admitted ignorance and asked…

> More like there are a billion of them, and I'm sure they see us as morally inferior, just as you see them. My wife is urban mainland Chinese, with no particular political or social axe to grind. She's not some dedicated protester or anything and nor are any of her family, one of whom is a government official. From personal experience I can say many, and probably most ordinary Chinese are perfectly well aware of jus…

Might be worth noting that there are term limits for political roles in China as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_the_People's_Repu...

Re: India, U.S. Agree to Joint Exploration of Mars

#52

Post by bostonpete » Thu, Oct 02, 2014, 5:20 PM UTC

falsestprophet wrote: post #39

Naritai wrote: post #7

While I'm a big supporter of international co-operation, remember that the US has been striking a number of technical deals with India, as a part of a long-term political investment in bringing up a large democratic power to balance China. I think this has as much to do with that goal as it does with sharing technical information.

"Remember" that people on the internet state their opinion as fact without substantiating that opinion with facts. The parent comment, which at this time is the #1 comment, does not contribute to understanding why the United States and India made this agreement.

> people on the internet state their opinion as fact without substantiating that opinion with facts

Do you have any evidence to back this claim up?

Re: India, U.S. Agree to Joint Exploration of Mars

#53

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Oct 02, 2014, 5:20 PM UTC

ryanhuff wrote: post #47

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More like there are a billion of them, and I'm sure they see us as morally inferior, just as you see them. I'm here to understand the issues and make my own decision. Haven't you ever wondered about something that you knew nothing about? How would you learn about it other than reading and asking questions? I have no idea how you concluded that I might be trolling, especially after I both admitted ignorance and asked…

Nobody claimed that the Chinese people are morally inferior. Your example of comparing the challenges of starting a news organization to compete with the likes of Fox News to that of the censorship that has been going on in China for years seems to a stretch, to say the least. Same goes for your "right to vote" comparison. I recommend you visit Amazon and pick up a couple of books on China if you are interested in ge…

[deleted]

Re: India, U.S. Agree to Joint Exploration of Mars

#54

Post by randallsquared » Thu, Oct 02, 2014, 5:25 PM UTC

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #31

refurb wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get the sense that you're approaching this as "neither system is perfect, so they are equivalent"? In other words, since you could get shot by a cop in the US even though you did nothing wrong, that means American is no better than ISIS who massacres thousands of innocent civilians? I would argue there are real, important differences in the points you called out as equivalent (or near-equivalent).

It was probably a terrible mistake to try to seek answers on a forum regarding political matters. Apologies. I would argue there are real, important differences in the points you called out as equivalent (or near-equivalent). Which points did I say were equivalent? I said no such thing. I was saying, "I have no clue what I'm talking about, and I have no clue what life in China is like, so please correct me." But sinc…

> It was probably a terrible mistake to try to seek answers on a forum regarding political matters.

Well, that's probably true, since politics is a mindkiller. :)

If you want to understand current foreign policy of the US, I recommend reading history, rather than politically aimed books or essays. History books and essays will often have political aims as well, but the slight remove from the present day introduces somewhat more consensus, and understanding how the world got to the current situation will inform your political understanding more evenly than reading a lot of posturing for one political position or another, in my opinion.

Re: India, U.S. Agree to Joint Exploration of Mars

#55

Post by sillysaurus3 » Thu, Oct 02, 2014, 5:28 PM UTC

ryanhuff wrote: post #47

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More like there are a billion of them, and I'm sure they see us as morally inferior, just as you see them. I'm here to understand the issues and make my own decision. Haven't you ever wondered about something that you knew nothing about? How would you learn about it other than reading and asking questions? I have no idea how you concluded that I might be trolling, especially after I both admitted ignorance and asked…

Nobody claimed that the Chinese people are morally inferior. Your example of comparing the challenges of starting a news organization to compete with the likes of Fox News to that of the censorship that has been going on in China for years seems to a stretch, to say the least. Same goes for your "right to vote" comparison. I recommend you visit Amazon and pick up a couple of books on China if you are interested in ge…

Do you have any recommendations in particular about which books I should read? Thanks!

Re: India, U.S. Agree to Joint Exploration of Mars

#56

Post by sillysaurus3 » Thu, Oct 02, 2014, 5:29 PM UTC

randallsquared wrote: post #54

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was probably a terrible mistake to try to seek answers on a forum regarding political matters. Apologies. I would argue there are real, important differences in the points you called out as equivalent (or near-equivalent). Which points did I say were equivalent? I said no such thing. I was saying, "I have no clue what I'm talking about, and I have no clue what life in China is like, so please correct me." But sinc…

> It was probably a terrible mistake to try to seek answers on a forum regarding political matters. Well, that's probably true, since politics is a mindkiller. :) If you want to understand current foreign policy of the US, I recommend reading history, rather than politically aimed books or essays. History books and essays will often have political aims as well, but the slight remove from the present day introduces so…

Thanks! Do you have any recommendations about which books to read? Which ones were most helpful to you?

Re: India, U.S. Agree to Joint Exploration of Mars

#57

Post by chc » Thu, Oct 02, 2014, 5:33 PM UTC

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #31

refurb wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get the sense that you're approaching this as "neither system is perfect, so they are equivalent"? In other words, since you could get shot by a cop in the US even though you did nothing wrong, that means American is no better than ISIS who massacres thousands of innocent civilians? I would argue there are real, important differences in the points you called out as equivalent (or near-equivalent).

It was probably a terrible mistake to try to seek answers on a forum regarding political matters. Apologies. I would argue there are real, important differences in the points you called out as equivalent (or near-equivalent). Which points did I say were equivalent? I said no such thing. I was saying, "I have no clue what I'm talking about, and I have no clue what life in China is like, so please correct me." But sinc…

I think the problem is partly that your question reads and functions a lot like trolling. Asking the difference between a democratic power and China is pretty strange in itself (the Chinese government famously drew this distinction pretty clearly when it killed hundreds of people for advocating democracy in Tiananmen Square in 1989) — and then in the last sentence of your question, you seem to acknowledge that you do know the difference, but that you are ignoring it because you think they are just "flags to fight under." I don't know what your real intention is, but the comment is pretty weird and comes across as either trolling or a Glenn Beck-style "I'm just asking questions" argument.

Re: India, U.S. Agree to Joint Exploration of Mars

#58

Post by ForHackernews » Thu, Oct 02, 2014, 5:36 PM UTC

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #10

Naritai wrote: post #7

While I'm a big supporter of international co-operation, remember that the US has been striking a number of technical deals with India, as a part of a long-term political investment in bringing up a large democratic power to balance China. I think this has as much to do with that goal as it does with sharing technical information.

I have a dumb question. What's a large democratic power, and how does it differ from China? I'm not implying China is in any way democratic, but rather inviting someone to further explain what the goal of the US is. Is it likely that this is simply empire expansion rather than an altruistic goal of balancing China? Mainly I'm just wondering what the concerns might be if a large democratic power (and I'd still like to…

> What's a large democratic power, and how does it differ from China?

In this context, "large democratic power" refers to India, the world's largest democracy with over 1.2 billion citizens. Even the logistics to conduct fair elections for a populace this size are quite intimidating: http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/04/ind...

Re: India, U.S. Agree to Joint Exploration of Mars

#59

Post by anigbrowl » Thu, Oct 02, 2014, 5:45 PM UTC

falsestprophet wrote: post #39

Naritai wrote: post #7

While I'm a big supporter of international co-operation, remember that the US has been striking a number of technical deals with India, as a part of a long-term political investment in bringing up a large democratic power to balance China. I think this has as much to do with that goal as it does with sharing technical information.

"Remember" that people on the internet state their opinion as fact without substantiating that opinion with facts. The parent comment, which at this time is the #1 comment, does not contribute to understanding why the United States and India made this agreement.

Anyone who pays attention to international affairs knows that the US has been seeking a rapprochement with India; Prime Minister Modi just had his first meeting with President Obama the other day. Meanwhile, the US has been at odds with China over its ballooning territorial claims in the South China Sea, to the point of possibly terminating the ban on arms sales to Viet Nam. I don't think the GP needs to provide citations for such easily acquired current affairs knowledge.

Re: India, U.S. Agree to Joint Exploration of Mars

#60

Post by randallsquared » Thu, Oct 02, 2014, 5:48 PM UTC

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #56

randallsquared wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It was probably a terrible mistake to try to seek answers on a forum regarding political matters. Well, that's probably true, since politics is a mindkiller. :) If you want to understand current foreign policy of the US, I recommend reading history, rather than politically aimed books or essays. History books and essays will often have political aims as well, but the slight remove from the present day introduces so…

Thanks! Do you have any recommendations about which books to read? Which ones were most helpful to you?

I don't have specific recommendations, since most of my history reading, sadly, was in the twentieth century, and I don't remember titles that had a strong foreign policy element. However, one suggestion would be to go through college course listings, such as http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/history/ , and drill down to the readings for a strong list of books.