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Americans abroad are giving up their citizenship as banks shut down accounts

theguardian.com

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Re: Americans abroad are giving up their citizenship as banks shut down accounts

#61

Post by GFischer »

mrfusion wrote: post #49
ggambetta wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a fellow Uruguayan, I want to add that citizenship comes without too many obligations; no military service or anything like that. The only one I can think of is that voting is compulsory. On the other hand, I wouldn't recommend living in Uruguay; I had very good reasons to leave and I don't see myself returning anytime soon. And I'd argue any European passport is better than an Uruguay one - you can freely live an…

Why don't you recommend living there? It sounds like a nice place?

A previous discussion (note: I still live in Uruguay):

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6903357

Re: Americans abroad are giving up their citizenship as banks shut down accounts

#62

Post by FD3SA »

ArtDev wrote: post #32

Typical for the IRS to go after the small fry while letting the behemoths get a free ride! Meanwhile, Facebook and Apple are supposedly based in Ireland. http://www.businessinsider.com/how-much-money-apple-avoids-p...

Precisely. Cases like this demonstrate exactly why democracy is meaningless when paired with an unrestrained capitalist system. Money completely triumphs votes in every policy issue. Income taxes are significantly higher than capital gains tax, and tax evasion becomes exponentially easier as a function of capital.

Such is life. It appears the mean human society has always tended towards oligarchy. If you can't beatem, joinem?

Re: Americans abroad are giving up their citizenship as banks shut down accounts

#64

Post by mikeash »

cujo wrote: post #19

This is going to sound snarky, but I'm not sure how else to ask it: why should I (or anyone not an expat) care? It seems to me that the complaint is from people who don't live in the US and have very little attachment to it other than convenience.

Isn't your last bit the whole point? These people have very little attachment to the US but are still undergoing hardship due to US government policy due to what is basically a technicality of legal status.

For a more personal point of view, how sure are you that you will never, ever decide to retire to, say, Costa Rica?

Re: Americans abroad are giving up their citizenship as banks shut down accounts

#65

Post by phunge »

I was personally bit by this (FBAR non-compliance). I worked abroad and was unknowingly violating it; found out about it from reading the news and hired a pro to extricate myself from the situation.

The bank account held five figures. The cost to come into compliance was low five figures. The potential penalties were easily high six figures. It was much larger than the either (a) my total earnings from 4 years abroad or (b) the maximum amount the account had ever held. I believe my tax guy was on the cheap end too.

I'm still angry about it; I feel like I was guilty of nothing more than ignorance. IMHO this is case of strict policies that were intended for rich tax evaders. And they're being retargetted at millions of expats & foreign nationals.

Re: Americans abroad are giving up their citizenship as banks shut down accounts

#66

Post by chaziaik »

philiphodgen wrote: post #43
jeffdavis wrote: post #11

"Steep penalties add muscle to the law. If a foreign bank – not just in Canada, but anywhere – fails to report even a single US citizen as a customer to the IRS, the US Treasury department would withhold 30% of the banks’ US income as penalty." What do they mean "US income"? How do they enforce it?

Let's say there is a tiny bank in Lichtenstein. It has two customers. Me, with $10,000 in the bank; I am a U.S. citizen. And the Sultan of Brunei, who deposits $1 billion. I tell the banker to keep my cash in the bank in Lichtenstein, and I use that bank account to pay my rent, buy food, and other ordinary things. The Sultan of Brunei tells the banker to take all of his money and plow it into the U.S. stock market. T…

Do you have more information on this ? If I understood you correctly this would have severe repercussions for foreign investors. Suppose you are a foreign investor, what can you do to protect yourself ?

Re: Americans abroad are giving up their citizenship as banks shut down accounts

#67

Post by jleyank »

FWIW, Those in Canada with foreign funds must fill out pretty much the same information about these accounts as the US-ians have to fill out about THEIR foreign holdings. I guess each country knows all about the local holdings and really want to know about the foreign ones.

US-ian expats have to file taxes each year. Unless they live in a country with a lower tax rate than the US, they don't actually pay anything... Can't talk about anything but wage slaves, but it's like 3-4 hours to do the US forms each year. There's at least two ways to make the US taxes disappear - expat forms and foreign tax credit forms.

Re: Americans abroad are giving up their citizenship as banks shut down accounts

#68

Post by oscargrouch »

personlurking wrote: post #12

Portugal just ratified the Convention on Mutual Administrative Assistance in Tax Matters. Basically, the convention is an agreement pursuant to which Portugal agrees to use its own courts and police to collect unpaid U.S. taxes from U.S. citizens living in Portugal.

This is just absurd.. even that's a simbolic figure, they will be using Portugal tax income to support the collect of US taxes?

I hope Brazil dont agree with that..

Now imagine the contrary.. would the US government help another country to collect tax from its citizens if they ask to?

Re: Americans abroad are giving up their citizenship as banks shut down accounts

#69

Post by Vespasian »

GFischer wrote: post #52
ggambetta wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a fellow Uruguayan, I want to add that citizenship comes without too many obligations; no military service or anything like that. The only one I can think of is that voting is compulsory. On the other hand, I wouldn't recommend living in Uruguay; I had very good reasons to leave and I don't see myself returning anytime soon. And I'd argue any European passport is better than an Uruguay one - you can freely live an…

Totally agreed on the European passports being overall superior (although some do come with obligations like military service for an Austrian passport for example), but they're much harder to obtain (I've been denied German citizenship). I've read about your reasons for leaving (security), and sadly, I have to agree that they're still an issue (and I'd love living in Switzerland). I think the risk can be minimized th…

Out of curiosity:

If its not too personal can you share some general information what nationality you have or had while applying to the German citizenship and what were the main reasons it didn't work out.

Re: Americans abroad are giving up their citizenship as banks shut down accounts

#70

Post by tptacek »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #20
GFischer wrote: post #3

As a citizen of Uruguay I find the last paragraph very funny: “I feel about the same obligation to file US tax papers as you would if the supreme court of Uruguay all of a sudden decided you were a citizen and had to file a tax return there,” he tells the Guardian. By the way, Uruguayan citizenship is VERY easy to acquire. American expatriates (and dollars :) ) welcome here :) Edit: easy as in requirements. There's a…

Can I still maintain my US citizenship as an Uruguayan citizen if I so choose?

Doesn't the U.S. have a problem with citizens voluntarily and deliberately acquiring citizenship from foreign countries?
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