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Americans abroad are giving up their citizenship as banks shut down accounts

theguardian.com

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Re: Americans abroad are giving up their citizenship as banks shut down accounts

#31

Post by philiphodgen »

digikata wrote: post #18

It seems like expat Americans need a political lobbying group to watch their interests. It would seem like large, international companies might have at least a passing interest too, as they might want at least some fraction of american staff to be posted internationally.

The closest we have to such a lobbying group is American Citizens Abroad -- https://americansabroad.org/

The two major political parties have organized themselves for citizens outside the United States but predictably they have other drums to beat. The D and R debates tend to be indistinguishable from the Itchy and Scratchy Show. The ACA is even-tempered and contains both D and R members.

Re: Americans abroad are giving up their citizenship as banks shut down accounts

#33

Post by vonnik »

This type of article appears every few years. Frankly, I don't think the numbers are very impressive, and they seem to be declining.

"In 2013, 2,999 Americans renounced their citizenship; in 2014 so far, it’s a little more than 1,500 people."

The population of the US in 2012 was about 314 million. So 0.000009% renounced their citizenship...

Re: Americans abroad are giving up their citizenship as banks shut down accounts

#34

Post by ggambetta »

GFischer wrote: post #3

As a citizen of Uruguay I find the last paragraph very funny: “I feel about the same obligation to file US tax papers as you would if the supreme court of Uruguay all of a sudden decided you were a citizen and had to file a tax return there,” he tells the Guardian. By the way, Uruguayan citizenship is VERY easy to acquire. American expatriates (and dollars :) ) welcome here :) Edit: easy as in requirements. There's a…

As a fellow Uruguayan, I want to add that citizenship comes without too many obligations; no military service or anything like that. The only one I can think of is that voting is compulsory.

On the other hand, I wouldn't recommend living in Uruguay; I had very good reasons to leave and I don't see myself returning anytime soon. And I'd argue any European passport is better than an Uruguay one - you can freely live and work in Europe, and you can visit the US without any visa.

Re: Americans abroad are giving up their citizenship as banks shut down accounts

#35

Post by ArtDev »

GFischer wrote: post #25
toomuchtodo wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I still maintain my US citizenship as an Uruguayan citizen if I so choose?

Yes, although the U.S. will expect you to file and pay taxes (as the article above explains) :)

You want the foreign earned income tax credit. I am designing my life around it!

Check out Belize and Costa Rica. Neither country will tax you at all. You even will qualify for a special residency visa!

Greeting from Greece!

Re: Americans abroad are giving up their citizenship as banks shut down accounts

#36

Post by turnip1979 »

philiphodgen wrote: post #28
matthewowen wrote: post #15

The underlying problem behind all of this is that the USA's policy on taxing non-resident citizens is, fundamentally, absurd. As a permanent resident, it's the one thing that gives me pause about applying for citizenship (I know that the same rules apply to me whilst I'm a permanent resident, but I'm concerned about what happens in the future if I decide to leave the USA).

As a permanent resident, you have a "do or die" date in your life. If you have the green card "in" at least 8 of the last 15 years, you have the privilege of paying the exit tax when you give up the visa status. (Well, you pay extra tax only if you are "rich" for certain definitions of "rich". You will certainly have a giant mountain of tax forms to fill in.) If you terminate your green card before that magic moment…

Can you explain the exit tax thing or give pointers? Does it apply to people on visa's like TN or H1B?

Re: Americans abroad are giving up their citizenship as banks shut down accounts

#37

Post by shortsightedsid »

I wonder if there will ever be a time when there is a marketplace of citizenship. There are plenty of non-americans who want to become US citizens or immigrate legally. And at the same time there are US citizens going the other way.

An example could be an Italian wanting to move to the US because he works in Tech and a US citizen wanting to move to Italy because he works in Fashion. A marketplace would allow the two to work out a citizenship swap, with the necessary immigration paperwork.

In my view it is a win-win because

a. The immigration is two way.

b. In a global economy we can expect more and more people to move across countries. This service would facilitate that

c. The immigrants would want to do such a thing out of real interest in improving their lives and thereby the lives of their chosen country.

Given that Passports are a fairly new invention that's about a 100 years old, (thanks to the French and Germans just before WWI), I don't see why it can't be created.

Re: Americans abroad are giving up their citizenship as banks shut down accounts

#38

Post by ChuckMcM »

cujo wrote: post #19

This is going to sound snarky, but I'm not sure how else to ask it: why should I (or anyone not an expat) care? It seems to me that the complaint is from people who don't live in the US and have very little attachment to it other than convenience.

If you are an American living in the states you should care because bad tax policy is like a cold sore that never heals, and indication of a much deeper systemic problem. Because it is systemic, it will likely come around and affect you directly.

In many ways the tax code is the scab over the festering and oozing mass that is the budget that most represents the problems in the government that are going unsolved. If you want to find problems to solve, that is where you will find them.

Re: Americans abroad are giving up their citizenship as banks shut down accounts

#39

Post by Someone1234 »

wmil wrote: post #21
Someone1234 wrote: post #8

Random question: If you had dual citizenship (e.g. Canadian + US), do you even need to tell a bank about your US citizenship when opening an account? Can't you just open it as if you were a Canadian only? Even your US SSN wouldn't be associated with it, so for all the US G and the bank know you're just someone with the same name and birthday. As a random aside: The US Gov is practically the only country in the world…

I imagine it's more of a "check this box to verify you are not a US citizen" system. The bank could then charge your account fees if you lied and they had to deal with the IRS. I actually think the US tax return laws are reasonable -- there have to be some obligations for citizens to go along with the rights they have.

> there have to be some obligations for citizens to go along with the rights they have

US Citizens abroad have no real legal rights.

edit: All the downvoters want to weigh in on exactly what a US citizen living outside of the US gains in terms of "rights?"

Re: Americans abroad are giving up their citizenship as banks shut down accounts

#40

Post by ArtDev »

wmil wrote: post #21
Someone1234 wrote: post #8

Random question: If you had dual citizenship (e.g. Canadian + US), do you even need to tell a bank about your US citizenship when opening an account? Can't you just open it as if you were a Canadian only? Even your US SSN wouldn't be associated with it, so for all the US G and the bank know you're just someone with the same name and birthday. As a random aside: The US Gov is practically the only country in the world…

I imagine it's more of a "check this box to verify you are not a US citizen" system. The bank could then charge your account fees if you lied and they had to deal with the IRS. I actually think the US tax return laws are reasonable -- there have to be some obligations for citizens to go along with the rights they have.

There are many people who do not even know they are US citizens! Every kid of an expat may not know they are actually considered naturalized US citizens. In fact, the US Consulate won't even tell you the truth!
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