The reason for digital currencies is becoming clearer.
Americans abroad are giving up their citizenship as banks shut down accounts
51–60 of 179 posts
Re: Americans abroad are giving up their citizenship as banks shut down accounts
#52As a citizen of Uruguay I find the last paragraph very funny: “I feel about the same obligation to file US tax papers as you would if the supreme court of Uruguay all of a sudden decided you were a citizen and had to file a tax return there,” he tells the Guardian. By the way, Uruguayan citizenship is VERY easy to acquire. American expatriates (and dollars :) ) welcome here :) Edit: easy as in requirements. There's a…
As a fellow Uruguayan, I want to add that citizenship comes without too many obligations; no military service or anything like that. The only one I can think of is that voting is compulsory. On the other hand, I wouldn't recommend living in Uruguay; I had very good reasons to leave and I don't see myself returning anytime soon. And I'd argue any European passport is better than an Uruguay one - you can freely live an…
Totally agreed on the European passports being overall superior (although some do come with obligations like military service for an Austrian passport for example), but they're much harder to obtain (I've been denied German citizenship).
I've read about your reasons for leaving (security), and sadly, I have to agree that they're still an issue (and I'd love living in Switzerland).
I think the risk can be minimized though. Ideally I'd want to live in Punta del Este or Maldonado rather than Montevideo, and the countryside is still pretty safe (though a computer nerd might die of boredom there :P ).
Re: Americans abroad are giving up their citizenship as banks shut down accounts
#53This type of article appears every few years. Frankly, I don't think the numbers are very impressive, and they seem to be declining. "In 2013, 2,999 Americans renounced their citizenship; in 2014 so far, it’s a little more than 1,500 people." The population of the US in 2012 was about 314 million. So 0.000009% renounced their citizenship...
1. Canary in a coal mine. Are these (currently small) numbers an indication of an underlying problem?
2. Are the numbers reported by the U.S. government accurate?
3. To the contrary, the annual expatriation numbers appear to be increasing.
Re: Americans abroad are giving up their citizenship as banks shut down accounts
#54As a citizen of Uruguay I find the last paragraph very funny: “I feel about the same obligation to file US tax papers as you would if the supreme court of Uruguay all of a sudden decided you were a citizen and had to file a tax return there,” he tells the Guardian. By the way, Uruguayan citizenship is VERY easy to acquire. American expatriates (and dollars :) ) welcome here :) Edit: easy as in requirements. There's a…
As a fellow Uruguayan, I want to add that citizenship comes without too many obligations; no military service or anything like that. The only one I can think of is that voting is compulsory. On the other hand, I wouldn't recommend living in Uruguay; I had very good reasons to leave and I don't see myself returning anytime soon. And I'd argue any European passport is better than an Uruguay one - you can freely live an…
I wouldn't recommend living in Uruguay; I had very good reasons to leave and I don't see myself returning anytime soon.
I'd be curious to know why this is the case for you.
Re: Americans abroad are giving up their citizenship as banks shut down accounts
#55So are they policing all the corporations with this law too? Or just Average Joe?
It's part of a broad government push to repatriate American funds into American banks. There are similar regs coming (proposed?) related to Americans owning foreign corporations. All the same playbook; just keep funds on-shore, in this case by making life miserable for foreign companies that deal with American money.
> It's part of a broad government push to repatriate American funds into American banks.
Not exactly. US government wants to repatriate taxes earned by American people and capital abroad and making foreign banks accountable to US is part of making that enforceable.
On-shoring of dollars into US accounts because they can't be kept easily abroad is unpleasant side effect. When US dollars leave US, economically it is the equivalent of the World giving US treasury an interest free loan. The return of those dollars is essentially a repayment of that loan and acts as inflation economically. This could be useful, but the US government already has a direct lever on the quantity of dollars in the US economy through the FED.
To summarize, US Gov only wants the return of dollars that it will receive as taxes, but by all means don't bring back the rest.
Re: Americans abroad are giving up their citizenship as banks shut down accounts
#56Random question: If you had dual citizenship (e.g. Canadian + US), do you even need to tell a bank about your US citizenship when opening an account? Can't you just open it as if you were a Canadian only? Even your US SSN wouldn't be associated with it, so for all the US G and the bank know you're just someone with the same name and birthday. As a random aside: The US Gov is practically the only country in the world…
I imagine it's more of a "check this box to verify you are not a US citizen" system. The bank could then charge your account fees if you lied and they had to deal with the IRS. I actually think the US tax return laws are reasonable -- there have to be some obligations for citizens to go along with the rights they have.
What rights do US expats have to go along with the obligations? The article doesn't seem to mention any.
Re: Americans abroad are giving up their citizenship as banks shut down accounts
#57In Canada, people can put money into a tax-deferred retirement fund (RRSP); the income tax is paid only when the money is withdrawn (sometimes 30 or 40 years later). The US does not recognize the RRSP as deserving of a tax-deferred status, but as a regular savings account. (https://www.tnvisaexpert.com/articles/how-canadian-rrsps-tax...) Thus some dual US-Canada citizens suddenly have faced significant tax bills from the US. This includes people that have never set foot in the US since they were toddlers.
Re: Americans abroad are giving up their citizenship as banks shut down accounts
#58I'm going through this IRS bullshit -personally-. I was under the impression filing taxes was simple, hell why would they make it complicated. But nope, if you live abroad it's twice as complicated for an ex-pat. Worse still, if you're self-employed (like I am) and a freelancer it's ever more paperwork and edge cases to be careful of. And the cherry on top! Software engineers have a whole different set of tax rules.…
> Fuck you IRS, you greedy pricks. That's blaming the bullet instead of the gun
What is the gun?
Re: Americans abroad are giving up their citizenship as banks shut down accounts
#59"Steep penalties add muscle to the law. If a foreign bank – not just in Canada, but anywhere – fails to report even a single US citizen as a customer to the IRS, the US Treasury department would withhold 30% of the banks’ US income as penalty." What do they mean "US income"? How do they enforce it?
Let's say there is a tiny bank in Lichtenstein. It has two customers. Me, with $10,000 in the bank; I am a U.S. citizen. And the Sultan of Brunei, who deposits $1 billion. I tell the banker to keep my cash in the bank in Lichtenstein, and I use that bank account to pay my rent, buy food, and other ordinary things. The Sultan of Brunei tells the banker to take all of his money and plow it into the U.S. stock market. T…
Where does the 30% withheld go? Is it held temporarily? Is it taken permanently?
Re: Americans abroad are giving up their citizenship as banks shut down accounts
#60"Steep penalties add muscle to the law. If a foreign bank – not just in Canada, but anywhere – fails to report even a single US citizen as a customer to the IRS, the US Treasury department would withhold 30% of the banks’ US income as penalty." What do they mean "US income"? How do they enforce it?
Probably if the bank itself files a US tax return. I don't know if they'd be able to enforce it on a strictly local bank that only does business outside the US, but a lot of banks are multinationals.
They managed to close down Wegelin Bank which operated inside Switzerland only. The US Gov probably threatened to arrest employees or something like that but officially the bank only published generic reasons about "pressure" for the closing.