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Stop and Seize

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Stop and Seize

#181

Post by DanBC »

kohanz wrote: post #55

This is by no means a justification for these seizures, but in reading this I can't help but wonder in what legitimate situations one would actually need to carry such large amounts of cash. Would a money-order or bank-certified check not do the job, or would those be seizable by the police as well? Again, I say this more in a "how can I avoid this type of situation" sense, rather than implying that there was any wro…

Bob owns a shop. Cash takings are put in a safe each night and taken to the bank at the end of the week.

Fatimah is an observant Muslim and thus has restricted choice of bank accounts. Her business is also a cash business but she keeps most of the cash in a safe because getting to a branch of a bank that offers an account that is compatible with her faith is a long drive. Thus she tends to have sizable amounts of cash when she actually goes to the bank.

Chris has been saving to buy a car. Chris has a problem controlling his spending with credit and debit cards, so he hands cash to his father who stuffs it in an envelope under a matress. While it's not particularly rational it works for Chris who now has $7,500 to buy a vehicle.

There's a bit of inconsistancy going on: "all criminals use cash, thus everyone who uses cash is a criminal". That's the kind of thinking that children are taught to be careful of and it's a bit scary to see it written into law.

Re: Stop and Seize

#182

Post by ams6110 »

oh_sigh wrote: post #176
zorrb wrote: post #137

Reading through these comments, I see quite a bit of ignorance. A lot along the lines of, "Why would you ever carry cash!?" Which fortunately a lot of cogent comment have successfully answered. Another is, "Why would you carry that much cash it's so RISKY?" As someone whose had to carry around five figure sums around quite a bit in the past because of my profession (hint: it rhymes with "rambling") my far and away, i…

Why couldn't you deposit the money in a bank, and withdraw it as close to the casino as possible?

Bank deposits and withdrawals of over $10,000 (?) trigger additional paperwork, FBI or IRS reports, etc.

Re: Stop and Seize

#183

Post by ams6110 »

DominikR wrote: post #117

Why doesn't your society resist? Parts of your police is now equiped like an army on a battlefield and money can be seized without any reasoning. And then there's NSA spying, torture and drone executions of suspected terrorists (even US citizens) without trial. If someone would have told me 20 years ago, that the US will turn into this, I would have thought that this person must be insane. Now it wouldn't even surpri…

We've lost some historical context. Take a look at how the police operated 150 years ago. The corruption now pales to then. Not that it makes any of this right, but it's neither unprecidented and certainly not the worst it's ever been.

Re: Stop and Seize

#184

Post by argonaut »

VexXtreme wrote: post #162
kordless wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First off, you are using a TON of blaming statements (which are mostly ad hominem) and are using a trolling technique to attempt poll others for feelings. It's a nasty habit and your comments only serve to make someone angry. I believe you are aware of your intent and only use it to illicit fear. We still have enough liberty here that this article can run in the newspaper freely. That is evidence enough America is fa…

> we are Americans and aren't going to allow our liberties to being eroded by a bunch of fear mongering asshats I can't count how many times I've heard this comment along the lines of "hurr durr this is Murica and no one is taking muh freedom away". No, your freedoms are already gone and it looks like you haven't woken up to it yet.

> "hurr durr this is Murica and no one is taking muh freedom away"

You really don't need to use language like this. This isn't Reddit.

Re: Stop and Seize

#185

Post by vfclists »

kordless wrote: post #85
vfclists wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't you Americans feel ashamed of your country? Your country is beginning to stink. In many respects it is worse than third world countries. How is this different from some third world country where police stop cars to collect bribes from drivers? Well I'll tell you. In America the whole administration, the judiciary, the legal profession, the government at federal,state and county level are in on it. It seems that…

First off, you are using a TON of blaming statements (which are mostly ad hominem) and are using a trolling technique to attempt poll others for feelings. It's a nasty habit and your comments only serve to make someone angry. I believe you are aware of your intent and only use it to illicit fear. We still have enough liberty here that this article can run in the newspaper freely. That is evidence enough America is fa…

I think you don't really get my point. Many countries don't have any meaningful rights or rule of law of any kind. There are many countries whose citizens will not challenge the authorities in any form or manner, because the systems give them no redress against any abuse of power. Even if they are rich the legal systems don't exist. Witness Khordovsky and his problems with the Russian government.

In America these institutions exist, but the legislatures have turned them into revenue collecting bodies for the federal,state, local governments and the law enforcement bodies.

It is like law enforcement and the legal system have turned into feeding troughs for the whole band of officials involved in it.

If you are not rich enough to give your lawyer a fair share of what they steal from you, you are not getting it back. If you are rich enough they don't bother stealing from you because they know you have the power to get it back.

This sucks. Apparently police and prison officers unions and PACS or whatever their called fund political campaigns which result in preserved or even bigger budgets for law enforcement, then turn around and use the increased income to fund the politicians next time around, to keep the cycle going (except Detroit), which results in more borrowing by the government from which the banks also get their share, pauperising future generations even more.

It is an interesting country.

Re: Stop and Seize

#186

Post by slowcode »

I like to use cash, and I keep a tally sheet and receipts with me when I travel, along with any withdrawal slips pertaining to the money. I can prove to a penny where it came from, where it was spent, on what, and it will equate to what is left.

But I get the impression that's not enough. As soon as they see cash, it's theirs.

And the thing is, I have plenty more in the bank. So if I am stopped and any cash or items are seized, the first thing I'm going to do is call my attorney and go about my business until I have sued the jurisdiction, the officer(s), and anyone else connected to the seizure back into the stone age.

I retired young after a successful career. Lots of tattoos. Gold Rolex, long hair, under 50 - I am an unscrupulous officer's wet dream. But I am sober, intelligent and law abiding. I never break the law and my driving record is spotless because of it. Pull me over and you're hunting, because you didn't see me weave.

Bring it.

And for those of you who are ready to say, "F you - you're rich", or whatever - spare me. I am exactly the kind of citizen who will eventually bring this kind of thing to a halt. I can afford to take it the Supreme Court. And I will do so with a relentless determination.

The police to me are a threatening force. If I need them, I'll go ahead and call. Otherwise, mind your own business and we'll be fine. So far in 47 years I have never needed them. And I know to a certainty I don't need them violating my rights.

Re: Stop and Seize

#187

Post by simoncion »

tbrownaw wrote: post #92
clamprecht wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You said cash is neither convenient nor safe. I've paid with cash, and I find it convenient and safe. It's especially convenient when the seller only accepts cash, since a non-cash transaction would be impossible. I have no problem with France's law against cash (since I'm not a French resident). France also doesn't have freedom of the press, and I'm ok with that.

You said cash is neither convenient nor safe. I've paid with cash, and I find it convenient and safe. If it's generally known that nobody carries large amounts of cash, I imagine it might make muggings a bit less common. It's not so much you personally carrying lots of cash that's safe or unsafe, it's what fraction of the population carries lots of cash that makes things safe or unsafe.

In the SF Bay Area, when people are mugged, they are not mugged for cash, they are mugged for their belongings.

Re: Stop and Seize

#188

Post by icebraining »

a8da6b0c91d wrote: post #39
zorrb wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is terrible advice on multiple levels. Absolutely you shouldn't be leaving the money out in the open, and should probably hide it. You should absolutely NEVER give consent to search your car. You have no idea what a person is capable of until it's too late. I'm not saying the cop will plant something, though it wouldn't be the first time, but you also have NO IDEA what might be in your car accidentally.

You've been watching too many political thrillers. These guys are just sniffing around for low hanging fruit. If you want to get into a one hour bout of flexing nuts with a cop where he gets suspicious and orders a K9 unit and ends up thoroughly tearing apart your car and bags and potentially planting something, knock yourself out. Do the whole citizen lawyer thing. If you want to be on your way with minimal hassle,…

Go ask David Eckert if it was "minimal hassle" after he consented to have his car searched.

Re: Stop and Seize

#189

Post by allegory »

dllthomas wrote: post #159
zorrb wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that crazy. A $1000 bundle of 20's is 50 bills. Usually they're wrapped up like that. That's only 15stacks. You'd only really have to count one of the stacks, if you didn't trust them.

"That's only 15stacks." I read the GP as saying 15.3k bills (i.e. £306k), not £15.3k in £20 bills. In which case, that's 306 stacks.

It was £306000!

Re: Stop and Seize

#190

Post by allegory »

dllthomas wrote: post #161
allegory wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty normal. No surprise. You weigh the cash with kitchen scales and check it's not paper blanks. That's about it. You have already exchanged contact details and IDs etc so it's all above board plus there is a solicitor present to hand over keys and act as immediate escrow. If there is a miscount of a few notes, ignore it and put it down to an accounting error. Then you go down the bank, tell them you have a t…

Note that the bank will probably be filing an SAR, but also that that probably doesn't matter.

They do indeed file a SAR and it doesn't matter if it's a property sale and you have legal documents.

I do somewhat regret not splitting it into £10k slabs and putting them in deposit boxes but I needed the cash for another house! :(

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