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I Ghostwrite Chinese Students' Ivy League Admissions Essays

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Re: I Ghostwrite Chinese Students' Ivy League Admissions Essays

#161

Post by delg »

jiggy2011 wrote: post #73
rayiner wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's stupid, and gives an unfair advantage to people from more educated and/or connected backgrounds. Instead of blaming admissions consultants, I'd blame the colleges using these bullshit proxy metrics.

But that's really the case either way, it's possible that having known metrics gives an even greater advantage to those who are economically well off as violin tuition gets more expensive due to rising demand. The most equitable solution would be to base admissions purely on grades but that isn't possible when you have grade inflation, because more people get straight As than there are places at top universities.

That, and because public school populations aren't nearly homogenous enough. See Canadian schools and UT for examples of grades not doing a good job keeping incoming student quality uniform (and necessitating remedial programs, which have their own issues).

Re: I Ghostwrite Chinese Students' Ivy League Admissions Essays

#162

Post by baddox »

canjobear wrote: post #51
rayiner wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> With the boom of the "college consultants" industry, professionals are essentially "forging" entire high school careers on behalf of their clients - telling them what classes to take, which clubs to join, where and how many hours they should volunteer, etc. I don't really get this perspective. If colleges are going to base admissions on amorphous things like what clubs someone joined, or what organizations they vol…

It's hard to see how this levels the playing field in practice. The "bright lower-income students" you mention don't have access to these expensive services.

I would imagine it's a heck of a lot cheaper to hire a consultant than it is to live in an area with public schools that will "naturally" provide the opportunities required for a bright student to get into a great school.

Re: I Ghostwrite Chinese Students' Ivy League Admissions Essays

#163

Post by InclinedPlane »

jurassic wrote: post #34

Really interesting piece. In my post-college lull, I was once in a major financial bind and ended up doing a brief stint as an academic ghostwriter. I wrote term papers, not admission essays, for a ghostwriting service over a period of about 2 months. The work was easy and the money was good. I felt pretty guilty doing the work at first, but I quickly realized that most of the assignments were so banal that I don't t…

It's a pretty broken system overall but that's no excuse for your behavior. Just because a building is dilapidated is no excuse to spray it with graffiti or throw rocks at the windows. Similarly, some folks have the mentality that when developing if the build is already broken it's fine to checkin anything. The reality is that you're just making things worse but you have a convenient cover to hide behind, just like looting during a natural disaster.

Re: I Ghostwrite Chinese Students' Ivy League Admissions Essays

#164

Post by baddox »

WoodenChair wrote: post #39
jurassic wrote: post #34

Really interesting piece. In my post-college lull, I was once in a major financial bind and ended up doing a brief stint as an academic ghostwriter. I wrote term papers, not admission essays, for a ghostwriting service over a period of about 2 months. The work was easy and the money was good. I felt pretty guilty doing the work at first, but I quickly realized that most of the assignments were so banal that I don't t…

I really appreciate your honesty and the knowledge you shared here, but I fear your rationalizations about why what you did is not unethical are just that - rationalizations. It's wrong to do others work for them and let them represent it as their own, no matter how mundane the subject matter. It lets them receive qualifications that they didn't earn and others who want those qualifications in competition with them,…

What is your ethical opinion on paid tutors?

Re: I Ghostwrite Chinese Students' Ivy League Admissions Essays

#165

Post by Chronic29 »

1337biz wrote: post #156
ghshephard wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a friend who got her degree from UC Berkeley, and maybe wrote 5-10% of her work, she had other people (Friends, Lovers, colleagues) write all the others - she was a master of manipulation. Who is to say that the valuable skill she developed wasn't her delegation and management skills, and that those were far more important in the long term than her ability to wax poetically about Plato's Republic? The fact that…

How did it turn our for her? Is that strategy working for her after college as well?

Manipulation is a very good skill to have. I'm trying to improve on that area myself. I would not be surprised if she is at a high end, prestigious job, in any industry.

Re: I Ghostwrite Chinese Students' Ivy League Admissions Essays

#166

Post by Chronic29 »

Bahamut wrote: post #128
chobo wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll never understand the mindset where not going to an Ivy is a "setback." That's not meant to be an insult at all, if it sounded like one. Good for you for having that attitude, of course, but that's such a foreign state of mind to me. I stumbled across the finish line in high school and self-destructed in college. Things have worked out but I wonder what even a small change in state of mind would have done for me…

Part of it was my fault - I only applied to a select 5 schools initially, since an Ivy was supposed to be a fallback due to connections & strength of academics. In hindsight, it was pretty foolish of me. I ended up attending a state school, applying last minute in April.

Going to an ivy league provides enormous benefits not present at any other state or private school. So yes, not going to an ivy is a setback.

Re: I Ghostwrite Chinese Students' Ivy League Admissions Essays

#167

Post by kissickas »

scintill76 wrote: post #129
lutusp wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> She only charges $400?! That's crazy. That's ¥2,500.00. The current median Chinese income is ¥63,875 ($10,220). So one essay produces 4% of a typical annual income, for what might only be a few hours' work. Twenty essays, and you're approaching the median income of your harder-working neighbors.

You seem to be saying the ghostwriter is a Chinese person living in China, but she wrote, "I’m a second-generation Korean American." Some quick Googling suggests the U.S. median income is around $50,000.

And if she only charges $400 for 350/3 essays per year, she makes about $47k. I can't fathom why she doesn't raise her rates if she feels like she's selling her soul when she writes about her own experiences.

Re: I Ghostwrite Chinese Students' Ivy League Admissions Essays

#168

Post by MaysonL »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #135
jurassic wrote: post #34

Really interesting piece. In my post-college lull, I was once in a major financial bind and ended up doing a brief stint as an academic ghostwriter. I wrote term papers, not admission essays, for a ghostwriting service over a period of about 2 months. The work was easy and the money was good. I felt pretty guilty doing the work at first, but I quickly realized that most of the assignments were so banal that I don't t…

> The most surprising discovery for me was that it seemed like after foreign language students the heaviest users of the service were education majors. No joke. I never figured out if the noticeably heavy use by education majors was a selection bias caused by the way the service was advertising itself, a sign of especially low ethics among education majors, or an indication that there might be a higher incidence of l…

My mother was an elementary school teacher during the depression, with only a "normal school" education, and after the war, and taking time out to raise us kids, she was unable to return to teaching, and ended up as secretary to the director of special education in a suburban school district. She wrote all his letters for him, because he seemed to be unable to compose a coherent paragraph, even though he had an Ed.D.

Re: I Ghostwrite Chinese Students' Ivy League Admissions Essays

#169

Post by zo1 »

rayiner wrote: post #71
jiggy2011 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the student who hires a consultant to tell them what classes to take, or what clubs to join, or what organizations to volunteer for, and then follows through with those, less deserving of a spot than someone that happens to randomly fall upon the right combination of activities? Yes, I think that's the general idea. Ideally the criteria are kept secret of course. It's the same as picking employees who do open sour…

I think that's stupid, and gives an unfair advantage to people from more educated and/or connected backgrounds. Instead of blaming admissions consultants, I'd blame the colleges using these bullshit proxy metrics.

"I'd blame the colleges using these bullshit proxy metrics."

And your alternative to this is? They're metrics for assessing candidates for a reason, you know. Sure, once they start getting gamed, they're no longer accurate, but that's a different discussion.

Re: I Ghostwrite Chinese Students' Ivy League Admissions Essays

#170

Post by praneshp »

ghshephard wrote: post #155
sk5t wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your ideas and work product are the ideas and work product of the organization, which your superiors represent... different kettle of fish.

I had a friend who got her degree from UC Berkeley, and maybe wrote 5-10% of her work, she had other people (Friends, Lovers, colleagues) write all the others - she was a master of manipulation. Who is to say that the valuable skill she developed wasn't her delegation and management skills, and that those were far more important in the long term than her ability to wax poetically about Plato's Republic? The fact that…

I went to Georgia Tech, which is considered a difficult school (though I personally believe it is not as tough as Berkeley). The most difficult part was that you had exams and assignments in several subjects at once. Life would have been really easy if we had just one class per semester; most of the individual papers weren't extraordinarily difficult. A couple of days research sounds reasonable for about 50% of the assignments I wrote, but you'd be shocked to see the dip in quality if you can only find 2 hours to spend on it instead.
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