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USB 3.0 Promoter Group Announces USB Type-C Connector Ready for Production [pdf]

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Re: USB 3.0 Promoter Group Announces USB Type-C Connector Ready for Production [pdf]

#61

Post by seanp2k2 »

IgorPartola wrote: post #20
melling wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Powering an external monitor from a laptop is appealing. One cord to the wall. Even cooler, would be driving an external monitor from a smartphone.

> Even cooler, would be driving an external monitor from a smartphone. That will be expensive though. You'll have to pay the medical bills for getting your back fixed after having to carry the suitcase with the batteries :). Current cell-phones have batteries around 2 Amp-hours. At 5 volts, that's 10 Watt-hours. The least-power hungry display according to [1] is a 15 inch LED; it clocks in at 15 Watts. This means you…

So with this new tech, it looks like you could charge the smartphone from the monitor while sending video from phone -> monitor? Sounds awesome.

Re: USB 3.0 Promoter Group Announces USB Type-C Connector Ready for Production [pdf]

#62

Post by pilif »

chipotle_coyote wrote: post #54
unwiredben wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've got it backwards... powering your laptop from the monitor is the killer app, meaning an end to proprietary laptop power supplies.

Well, you've got one out of two already. :) Apple laptops can be powered by Apple external monitors. It'd be nice to have a more "universal" standard -- where I'm sitting at work right now I see one coworker with a ThinkPad plugged into an Apple monitor, and another with a MacBook Air plugged into a Samsung monitor, and that means both of them need one more outlet than I do. But that's a meeting of the brands I would…

> Well, you've got one out of two already. :) Apple laptops can be powered by Apple external monitors.

Well. Kinda. You still have to plug in two cables. This would allow to go down to one single cable powering the laptop and sending signals to the screen.

Though, honestly, I don't trust USB to be a good protocol for transmitting a high bandwidth and very lie latency signal with it's inherently polling architecture.

Re: USB 3.0 Promoter Group Announces USB Type-C Connector Ready for Production [pdf]

#63

Post by seanp2k2 »

ksec wrote: post #18

Um.. wouldn't the small piece in the computer's end break easily since it is so thin.. and small. And how does it delivery 100W of power with cable that thin?

I'm guessing it does 100w only at 20v, which is 5A, which, with proper engineering, could be carried over 22-24 AWG wire according to https://www.eol.ucar.edu/rtf/facilities/isff/LOCAL_access_on...

For an example of how thick 24AWG wire is (22 is thicker), your standard CAT5E wire is 8 strands of 24AWG, so with the current-standard USB wiring of VCC (5v DC pos), Data (neg), Data (pos), GND (5v DC neg), it'd be ~half as thick as CatV (but would probably have different shielding). However, according to http://pinoutsguide.com/Slots/usb_3_0_connector_pinout.shtml , the powered USB 3.0 connector has 11 pins, which would be ~lamp cord thickness, or probably comparable to those ~10ft USB printer cables.

Consider how thick overhead power lines are and how much power they carry in watts, and how thick + long your vacuum cleaner cord is with how much that carries (a Dyson DC33 takes 1190 watts): http://www.cockeyed.com/science/power_use_database/dyson_vac...

Here is a good primer on wire capacity and how it relates to volts, amps, watts, and wire diameter: http://www.rowand.net/Shop/Tech/WireCapacityChart.htm

TL;DR totally possible with 20vdc to use a wire thinner than a BIC pen to deliver 100w ~6ft in addition to high-speed data.

Re: USB 3.0 Promoter Group Announces USB Type-C Connector Ready for Production [pdf]

#64

Post by delecti »

dublinben wrote: post #16
rreay wrote: post #13

Oh joy, they still use that damn diving board design on the device side. I've broken 3 devices when that diving board breaks.

Really? How aggressively are you plugging in your USB cables?

Seriously, I've only ever damaged a USB plug when forcing it to go in the wrong way, which this will prevent.

Re: USB 3.0 Promoter Group Announces USB Type-C Connector Ready for Production [pdf]

#65

Post by makomk »

epochwolf wrote: post #41
[deleted] wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

That only works if 1. The cable has a logo. 2. You can see the logo. 3. The device and cable both conform to the standard. 4. The port is not vertical. 5. The device you are plugging in is not on it's side or upside down. 6. The user is sober and of a clear, calm mind.

The cable that came with my Moto G improves on this by making the top, logo side slightly concave and the other side slightly convex. You can literally feel which way up you've got the plug.

Re: USB 3.0 Promoter Group Announces USB Type-C Connector Ready for Production [pdf]

#66

Post by seanp2k2 »

I'm surprised they're not calling it ~"USB Smart" like Bluetooth: http://www.bluetooth.com/Pages/Bluetooth-Smart-Devices.aspx

The logo for "USB 3.1 SuperSpeed +" is very similar to the current "SuperSpeed USB" logo: http://low-powerdesign.com/donovansbrain/wp-content/uploads/...

EDIT: Here's the USB 3.1 logo (USB 3.0 logo above for comparison): http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/Usb-3.1-l...

Re: USB 3.0 Promoter Group Announces USB Type-C Connector Ready for Production [pdf]

#67

Post by mbell »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #23
deckiedan wrote: post #11

I'm not an apple fanboy - but I do really like their magsafe & iPad mini connectors (whatever those are called officially). One thing I really like is the lack of "sticky-out-bit" in the middle of the connector, which all USB sockets seem to have, and which always feels kind of unstable or weak to me. Is there a reason why all USB sockets - including these new diagrams - have a feeble looking centre part rather than…

> Is there a reason why all USB sockets - including these > new diagrams - have a feeble looking centre part rather > than it being part of the outer ring? The outer part is the RF shield. That increases reliability by protecting the low voltage (but high frequency) USB data signals from coupling to outside interference (50/60 hz stray emf from power lines, switching power supply noise, etc). The magsafe connectors a…

You have this backwards, the shield is there to prevent RF noise radiating _from_ the USB signal pairs, not to prevent outside noise coupling onto the signal pairs.

Re: USB 3.0 Promoter Group Announces USB Type-C Connector Ready for Production [pdf]

#68

Post by astrodust »

heywire wrote: post #44
deckiedan wrote: post #11

I'm not an apple fanboy - but I do really like their magsafe & iPad mini connectors (whatever those are called officially). One thing I really like is the lack of "sticky-out-bit" in the middle of the connector, which all USB sockets seem to have, and which always feels kind of unstable or weak to me. Is there a reason why all USB sockets - including these new diagrams - have a feeble looking centre part rather than…

The Lightning connector just seems so fragile to me. I haven't broken mine yet, but I have certainly seen a lot of broken ones on displays in stores. I can't say I've ever broken a USB connector. That said, there is something to be said for a reversible connector that doesn't require 3 rotations to plug in :)

If you work in tech support you'll see USB ports mangled beyond recognition, people force-plugging them in backwards or worse, and a horrifying number of cables that have ends that have been pinched or bent.

The Lightning connector by comparison is a solid piece and would have to be smashed in half to fail.

Re: USB 3.0 Promoter Group Announces USB Type-C Connector Ready for Production [pdf]

#69

Post by coldtea »

izacus wrote: post #33
deckiedan wrote: post #11

I'm not an apple fanboy - but I do really like their magsafe & iPad mini connectors (whatever those are called officially). One thing I really like is the lack of "sticky-out-bit" in the middle of the connector, which all USB sockets seem to have, and which always feels kind of unstable or weak to me. Is there a reason why all USB sockets - including these new diagrams - have a feeble looking centre part rather than…

Hmm, while Lightning connector is rather nice, I don't like MagSafe 2 at all... it keeps falling out from the connection, especially if I use the laptop on a bed or similar surface. The original MagSafe and the connector on my previous Dell M1330 were significantly more reliable while still providing enough protection.

>it keeps falling out from the connection, especially if I use the laptop on a bed or similar surface.

That's the whole idea. It better fall out, than put strain on the port or cable, like it would normally do. Plus, if you yank the cable while it's on a table, the laptop wont fall down with it.

Re: USB 3.0 Promoter Group Announces USB Type-C Connector Ready for Production [pdf]

#70

Post by reitzensteinm »

XorNot wrote: post #60
yincrash wrote: post #12

They also said it supports the USB PD to up to 100W (@ 20V) which is enough current (5A) to support stuff like a Macbook Air.

Its enough to support any laptop I know of. Very vew exceed 100W.

Pretty much the only way to exceed 100W is to be running a high end gaming laptop, while actively playing games.

A desktop equivalent(ish) quad core hyperthreaded i7-4700MQ that turbos up to 3.4ghz only has a 47W TDP, which is a worst case number, so even heavy duty number crunching isn't enough.

Even exceeding 100W, you'll still be draining the battery much more slowly than when unplugged. At 125W the battery will last 5x longer.

It's hard to imagine a real world situation where 100W would be insufficient, where the user wouldn't be very much better off using a desktop machine for gaming.

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