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Large Round of Layoffs Expected at Microsoft

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Re: Large Round of Layoffs Expected at Microsoft

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in an area that had a relatively high number of returning vets about a year ago. We instituted a job training program at our college. Many institutions, especially community colleges, provide similar programs. We have been surprised to see that some of the skills making these young people successful while serving have almost no translation into the civilian world, outside of being able to follow orders really,…

Could you elaborate on those kinds of jobs? Obviously relative few companies hire people to plan artillery strikes, etc, but I suppose those aren't what you mean. Does a purchasing department at Big Corp really differ that much from logistics and supply work?

It's actually less to do with military as in fighting, and more in the direct application of the skills they're supposed to have. For example:

Most requests for our returning vets come from transportation and trade (we're a river town relatively close to major north/south and east/west highways and a major railway line). The largest portion of our returning vets were in the army or army national guard, in the local transportation groups. We don't have infantry in our area, we have truck drivers and mechanics. Anyway, the requests and the expertise seemed a custom fit - the soldiers ran big trucks and trains, and there is no better organization than the United States Army when it comes to large-scale logistics.

Our returning vets, though, are unable to branch outside of their assigned mode of operation.

The mechanics are able to work on, say, heavy machines and diesel engines so they're able to work on the trains and barges really well, but are unable to translate those skills to tractor trailers or small(ish) engines like pick-ups or delivery vans.

The Army transport drivers are able to drive tractor trailers or operate barges. BUT, they do not have the certifications necessary to legally do that work stateside, AND they lack skills in the classroom to be able to sit and pass the test for the licenses. Usually it's because they have never been able to do math well, and are unable to pass a college level mathematics course (it's applied math, so it has practical applications in their jobs - not college algebra or statistics or anything like that). Along with that, they're unable to translate their existing skills into heavy machinery for construction, demolition or excavation.

The leaders/officers are unable to transition out of the military 'because I said so' mentality and into the corporate 'because it's in your best interest' mentality. Our retraining in this area has been the biggest failure; they don't see the need to change their mode of people management, and we don't have a reason for them to either (other than long-term employment).

The paperwork individuals, like you use in your example, transition easily. If the person worked in an office, they will come back and find employment almost immediately.

This could all be helped if the military provided training ON THEIR END before they come back to the world. Believe it or not, the transition from the military to a college environment is incredibly difficult for most folks.

Re: Large Round of Layoffs Expected at Microsoft

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in an area that had a relatively high number of returning vets about a year ago. We instituted a job training program at our college. Many institutions, especially community colleges, provide similar programs. We have been surprised to see that some of the skills making these young people successful while serving have almost no translation into the civilian world, outside of being able to follow orders really,…

Could you elaborate on those kinds of jobs? Obviously relative few companies hire people to plan artillery strikes, etc, but I suppose those aren't what you mean. Does a purchasing department at Big Corp really differ that much from logistics and supply work?

I have worked in two industries that hire a lot of ex-military with essentially a high school level of education.

The first is nuclear power. A lot of the people working in the control rooms are from the military, and it is a very high paying and comfy job for someone without a college degree. The other is high skill technician and assemblers in manufacturing.

The things these jobs have in common is they need a strict adherence to rules and procedures, which is something military training makes people well suited to.

Re: Large Round of Layoffs Expected at Microsoft

#223

Any company that has been around for as long as Microsoft, has a huge amount of dead weight in its mid-level management. I mean people whose main skill is mastery of the internal political process. Lest people think I'm singling out Microsoft specifically, this same problem is present at Google as well, but is less of a problem because Google has not been around long enough to pick up the same amount of dead weight p…

This describes working at NASA down to a T.

Hey! Don't tell people that! We build rockets! And all of our software has to be manned-flight-rated! (Including people.nasa.gov!)

Re: Large Round of Layoffs Expected at Microsoft

#224

Any company that has been around for as long as Microsoft, has a huge amount of dead weight in its mid-level management. I mean people whose main skill is mastery of the internal political process. Lest people think I'm singling out Microsoft specifically, this same problem is present at Google as well, but is less of a problem because Google has not been around long enough to pick up the same amount of dead weight p…

Facebook does indeed have a very efficient corporate structure (whether that will last is another question). Perhaps 7,000 to 7,300 employees (assuming some pickup the last quarter or two), and $8.9 billion in sales. Microsoft by comparison had roughly 15,000 employees when they had that level of revenue (adjusting for inflation), circa 1993 / 1994.

Facebook is in a much more efficient business. Presumably, many Microsofties are doing on-site hand-holding, stuff that Facebook just doesn't do.

Re: Large Round of Layoffs Expected at Microsoft

#225
post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what languages? Obviously location is important but I am writing C++ on multiple platforms in the UK and $200k is far away.

I don't believe the parent is referring to the salary of the employee, but rather the overall cost to the company for that employee.

this. what a company budgets for the average full cost of an employee per year. so someone who makes $100k and someone who makes $225k in their own salary all average out to $200k when you take salary cost + insurance costs, 401k, perks, overhead, etc.

Re: Large Round of Layoffs Expected at Microsoft

#226
post #84
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft employee here. My main concern is the fact that I'm the US on an H-1B visa. I really, really, really don't want to go back to my country, but that will be the case if I'm laid off and unable to find another H-1B sponsor in a very short time. :(

Hang in there bro. I got laid off on H1-B last year. While technically you become "out of status" on the day you get laid off (severance and payroll doesnt matter), you can stick around for a reasonable amount of time to find a new job. The strictest interpretation for that time is 10 days but I know folks who took 2 months. Good luck!

this is wrong advice. Don't do this. If DHS gets notified you will kicked immediately and put on ban to US entry for 1 to 3 years depending on offence. Read story of girl from Mexico ( techie girl) who overstayed.

Re: Large Round of Layoffs Expected at Microsoft

#227
post #35
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft employee here. My main concern is the fact that I'm the US on an H-1B visa. I really, really, really don't want to go back to my country, but that will be the case if I'm laid off and unable to find another H-1B sponsor in a very short time. :(

You'll typically get severance for one or two months. As long as you are on the payroll, you can apply for a H1-B transfer. I went through this situation 7 years back. For a company of Microsoft's size, a severance of one or two months shouldn't be a problem.

Wrong. You have to be employed - meaning Active Employment - to be on H1b visa. Severence package is no excuse to stay in country. IANAL , but please don't say anything you don't know about law. If you overstayed yourself you broke the law.

Re: Large Round of Layoffs Expected at Microsoft

#228
How can you fire 18,000 people without seriously disrupting your business (not even considering loss of morale, angst, good employees running away or getting their resumes ready). But just logistically. How do you decide who those 18,000 are? Just random? How do you know which are 'expendable' or the 'bad Apples'? When you are talking this size, I doubt that is even possible.

Re: Large Round of Layoffs Expected at Microsoft

#229
post #104

Any company that has been around for as long as Microsoft, has a huge amount of dead weight in its mid-level management. I mean people whose main skill is mastery of the internal political process. Lest people think I'm singling out Microsoft specifically, this same problem is present at Google as well, but is less of a problem because Google has not been around long enough to pick up the same amount of dead weight p…

Its good in theory, but in practice it doesn't work. Those guys who mastered the political process. They don't get fired. Not getting fired is what they do. Thats the thing they're really good at.

This is why the problem inevitably gets worse over time. If you think it's bad at Microsoft, visit IBM. It's mostly insiders, and everyone has a way of looking like they hit their metrics, while the company falls apart.

Re: Large Round of Layoffs Expected at Microsoft

#230

Any company that has been around for as long as Microsoft, has a huge amount of dead weight in its mid-level management. I mean people whose main skill is mastery of the internal political process. Lest people think I'm singling out Microsoft specifically, this same problem is present at Google as well, but is less of a problem because Google has not been around long enough to pick up the same amount of dead weight p…

I have seen way too much dead weight in engineering functions too. Basically, people who keep their jobs because they write horrendous code that nobody else can manage.

So you can BS your way in many functions.

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