Large Round of Layoffs Expected at Microsoft • Hacker News Board

Re: Large Round of Layoffs Expected at Microsoft

#31

Post by localhost » Thu, Jul 17, 2014, 1:49 AM UTC

arthurcolle wrote: post #5

I guess this means between 7000-9000 layoffs based on the crude calculation 600M/(60,000 ~ 75,000)~ approximately

If the goal is 600MM / year in savings, your denominator is off by quite a bit. Fully loaded cost of an employee is significantly higher than 60-75K. Try 3-4x that amount.

Re: Large Round of Layoffs Expected at Microsoft

#32

Post by jgalt212 » Thu, Jul 17, 2014, 1:54 AM UTC

TheMagicHorsey wrote: post #18

Any company that has been around for as long as Microsoft, has a huge amount of dead weight in its mid-level management. I mean people whose main skill is mastery of the internal political process. Lest people think I'm singling out Microsoft specifically, this same problem is present at Google as well, but is less of a problem because Google has not been around long enough to pick up the same amount of dead weight p…

That's all well and good, but I bet there's tons of dead weight in the engineering ranks as well. Not just areas/jobs indirectly linked to core business functions as you cited.

Re: Large Round of Layoffs Expected at Microsoft

#33

Post by jqm » Thu, Jul 17, 2014, 1:56 AM UTC

tphan wrote: post #10

I knew Microsoft was on the way out but I didn't know the situation was so bad. Hopefully those who lost their jobs will find a place at Google or Apple.

Microsoft has a lot of cash and a huge mass of captive customers who will stay captive customers if they clean up their act just a little bit. I wouldn't call demise just yet. They will be around for a long time to come and may just surprise everyone.

Not that I care. I don't use Microsoft products and given the choice never will. And I don't care for their general behavior as a company. I never thought it was a good idea to have ubiquitous monolithic providers of essential software. But I'm a minority among computer users and I wouldn't count them out.

Re: Large Round of Layoffs Expected at Microsoft

#34

Post by poof131 » Thu, Jul 17, 2014, 1:58 AM UTC

TheMagicHorsey wrote: post #18

Any company that has been around for as long as Microsoft, has a huge amount of dead weight in its mid-level management. I mean people whose main skill is mastery of the internal political process. Lest people think I'm singling out Microsoft specifically, this same problem is present at Google as well, but is less of a problem because Google has not been around long enough to pick up the same amount of dead weight p…

The military is especially prone to this problem. I’d hesitate to refer to people as dead weight, but the retirement structure encourages mid-level management to hang-on for twenty. Even if people are burnt out after 10 years, which the military is very capable of doing, many stay even when they and the Service would be better off if they moved on.

Re: Large Round of Layoffs Expected at Microsoft

#35

Post by sg47 » Thu, Jul 17, 2014, 1:59 AM UTC

cesarbs wrote: post #24

tdicola wrote: post #13

Never good news to hear about layoffs, but for those that are affected I can say there is life beyond Microsoft. (it might even be better!)

Microsoft employee here. My main concern is the fact that I'm the US on an H-1B visa. I really, really, really don't want to go back to my country, but that will be the case if I'm laid off and unable to find another H-1B sponsor in a very short time. :(

You'll typically get severance for one or two months. As long as you are on the payroll, you can apply for a H1-B transfer. I went through this situation 7 years back. For a company of Microsoft's size, a severance of one or two months shouldn't be a problem.

Re: Large Round of Layoffs Expected at Microsoft

#36

Post by jpgvm » Thu, Jul 17, 2014, 2:01 AM UTC

AVTizzle wrote: post #29

tphan wrote: post #10

I knew Microsoft was on the way out but I didn't know the situation was so bad. Hopefully those who lost their jobs will find a place at Google or Apple.

Sometimes, as was the case with Zynga for example, I get the sense that layoffs are an indicator of imminent demise. For some reason, under Nadella, I get the feeling that these MSFT layoffs are an indicator of an imminent rise. Maybe it's just a story I'm looking for after watching Mayer at the helm of an increasingly relevant Yahoo. Similarly, I really get the sense that MSFT under Nadella is going to be an excitin…

If people look beyond desktop, specifically to enterprise software and cloud computing it should be pretty clear that Microsoft is not in decline. If anything they are more in control and cohesive than ever..

Re: Large Round of Layoffs Expected at Microsoft

#37

Post by akurilin » Thu, Jul 17, 2014, 2:05 AM UTC

Interesting how this will impact the job market on the West Coast. You'd think that 5-10k people in IT would quickly fill a lot of the currently open positions.

Re: Large Round of Layoffs Expected at Microsoft

#38

Post by fredophile » Thu, Jul 17, 2014, 2:06 AM UTC

poof131 wrote: post #34

TheMagicHorsey wrote: post #18

Any company that has been around for as long as Microsoft, has a huge amount of dead weight in its mid-level management. I mean people whose main skill is mastery of the internal political process. Lest people think I'm singling out Microsoft specifically, this same problem is present at Google as well, but is less of a problem because Google has not been around long enough to pick up the same amount of dead weight p…

The military is especially prone to this problem. I’d hesitate to refer to people as dead weight, but the retirement structure encourages mid-level management to hang-on for twenty. Even if people are burnt out after 10 years, which the military is very capable of doing, many stay even when they and the Service would be better off if they moved on.

The problem with the military is how benefits are set up. There is a big jump in benefits at twenty years. If you put in 10-12 years your benefits aren't significantly better than someone who just did minimal time. If there was a small jump around the ten year point they'd probably see people willing to stop there instead of holding out 8-10 more years.

Re: Large Round of Layoffs Expected at Microsoft

#39

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jul 17, 2014, 2:10 AM UTC

akurilin wrote: post #37

Interesting how this will impact the job market on the West Coast. You'd think that 5-10k people in IT would quickly fill a lot of the currently open positions.

[deleted]

Re: Large Round of Layoffs Expected at Microsoft

#40

Post by kabdib » Thu, Jul 17, 2014, 2:13 AM UTC

TheMagicHorsey wrote: post #18

Any company that has been around for as long as Microsoft, has a huge amount of dead weight in its mid-level management. I mean people whose main skill is mastery of the internal political process. Lest people think I'm singling out Microsoft specifically, this same problem is present at Google as well, but is less of a problem because Google has not been around long enough to pick up the same amount of dead weight p…

In the last layoffs, many of the people who were let go were back working for Microsoft again in a year or so (often as full-time employees, more often as contractors).

I believe that Microsoft has more contractors than it does employees. That is just crazy.

Also, it's nearly impossible to fire even the most grossly incompetent people. One person I worked with was a utter flatline and doing negative work (very bad Q/A, argumentative, and the most useless person I have ever had as a coworker. It took six months to fire the guy, and it was no secret to the third and fourth layer management that the guy was a huge mistake.

MS needs to get rid of the right people.