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Large Round of Layoffs Expected at Microsoft

bits.blogs.nytimes.com

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Re: Large Round of Layoffs Expected at Microsoft

#191

Post by russgray »

tdicola wrote: post #30
zer0nes wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't it be good news? And good news to whom? To me, who cares about this company, this is good news because I think that MS needs to get much more nimble. I'm saying this as someone who can receive very bad news tomorrow.

It's certainly not good news for someone who might lose their job. It's also not good because it can scare off good people too--if you're watching the company you work for go through a massive round of layoffs and make the cut, won't you start wondering if maybe it's time to look elsewhere before things get worse?

When a company I used to work for announced its first ever round of layoffs, I volunteered to get cut. Took the payoff and got the hell out.

Re: Large Round of Layoffs Expected at Microsoft

#192

Post by samirmenon »

wavegeek wrote: post #144
crag wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. And it's not just tech. Most large companies have mid-level workers whose sole job is to not to get laid off (fired). I pity anyone under them cause they are usually the hardest working and first to go. Companies should be looking top-down instead of the usual bottom-up. And man, it gets cut-throat. You know, when I traded, I used to think that was the most cut-throat work environment. Then the firm I was tr…

> And it's not just tech. It also applies to countries. Look at the increasing resources that go to people who produce little or nothing of value to others eg lawyers, lobbyists, politicians, financial engineers, LBO operators etc. Not to mention many of the people on welfare.

You're saying that lawyers and politicians provide little or no value to others? Don't democracy and a fair legal system require good lawyers and politicians?

Re: Large Round of Layoffs Expected at Microsoft

#193

Post by bmj »

72deluxe wrote: post #169
ryanburk wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you should assume ~200k for an engineer in a market like seattle

In what languages? Obviously location is important but I am writing C++ on multiple platforms in the UK and $200k is far away.

I don't believe the parent is referring to the salary of the employee, but rather the overall cost to the company for that employee.

Re: Large Round of Layoffs Expected at Microsoft

#194

Post by varelse »

eitally wrote: post #175
bkjelden wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone currently with the company, this description of some mid-level management really resonates with me. I am incredibly skeptical, however, that any round of layoffs attempting to get rid of these people will have a good hit rate. Plenty of really talented engineers and engineering managers will end up losing their jobs too. I a lot of my older peers from university went to work for IBM for a couple years righ…

I can't believe I'm about to do this, but this is a situation where Michael O'Church hit the nail on the head. https://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2014/07/13/how-the-othe... The reason engineers and other tech staff will lose their jobs is because 1) politics above them, 2) lack of adequate technical understanding amongst mgmt to recognize how to usefully allocate technical staff, and 3) lack of political capital am…

That's a wonderfully over the top and appropriate article on the subject. And it resonates with me because the solution I've generally taken as an engineer is to annoy everyone around me with facts and benchmarks until I find someone in the management caste that has the same goals as I do and then jump ship to their team.

Considering the author, it's amusing that this blew up in my face at Google. Facts were irrelevant there, only status, and this was pointedly explained to me in an effort to get me to conform. So as a powerless new senior engineer blind allocated into something random and unsuitable, I found someone at another company with similar goals and jumped ship shortly after starting when it became clear that was my only other option.

In retrospect, had I endured the tedium of my initial assignment, everything I was saying ended up relevant once they hired people with status making use of my skillset to improve search.

Blech...

Re: Large Round of Layoffs Expected at Microsoft

#195

Post by walterbell »

protonfish wrote: post #186
walterbell wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One challenge is that naturally talented people often don't understand why the facts are insufficient. Others who are less talented often needed to develop political skills for survival. Agree that those links are basic (hence Politics 101), but convincing technical folk to care about this topic isn't easy. One needs to understand offense in order to play defense. Here are some books with timeless techniques for thos…

So the solution is to join the ranks of the lying ass-kissers? Who would be left to do any work?

That's not suggested in my post, the references or most interpretations of the word "defensive".

Re: Large Round of Layoffs Expected at Microsoft

#196

Post by pramalin »

TheMagicHorsey wrote: post #121
swalsh wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its good in theory, but in practice it doesn't work. Those guys who mastered the political process. They don't get fired. Not getting fired is what they do. Thats the thing they're really good at.

I should have elaborated. You are right, hiring and firing is a political process, and so you are right, its vulnerable to manipulation by the shrewdest political players. My assumption, however, is that the layoffs are managed by senior management, who are the shrewdest of all the political players. If they do layoffs right, they put the power of firing into the hands of people in a separate power structure. I mean…

One example of right layoff I have seen is at the rail-road company in my town. They hired consultants to help with the process. My friend explained me how it went. Each person was given a questionnaire asking whom they are reporting to and who are reporting to them. The organization was so bad that many managers did not know who are all the people reporting to them. These people and others many people who were working from home most of the time were the first set of people to go.

Re: Large Round of Layoffs Expected at Microsoft

#197

Post by ctrlaltkill »

known wrote: post #162

Companies ruined or almost ruined by imported Indian labor (US) http://sammyboy.com/showthread.php?98021-Companies-ruined-or...

That thread got very racist very quickly. I don't know if it's intended to be satire, but it conflates a lot of issues and blames it on Indians. AIG and Lehman, for example, collapsed due to very different reasons.

Re: Large Round of Layoffs Expected at Microsoft

#198

Post by Loughla »

crag wrote: post #126
fredophile wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with the military is how benefits are set up. There is a big jump in benefits at twenty years. If you put in 10-12 years your benefits aren't significantly better than someone who just did minimal time. If there was a small jump around the ten year point they'd probably see people willing to stop there instead of holding out 8-10 more years.

It's also a feeling of being stuck. I mean, you a 13B, where you gonna get a job? At Burger King? And you're (were) an E6; a platoon leader with responsibility for personnel and artillery equipment worth millions and now you're flipping burgers? I've always thought the Army needed a job training problem (maybe through the VA, if nothing else) where you could "un-learn" your military skills in favor of civilian skills…

I live in an area that had a relatively high number of returning vets about a year ago. We instituted a job training program at our college. Many institutions, especially community colleges, provide similar programs.

We have been surprised to see that some of the skills making these young people successful while serving have almost no translation into the civilian world, outside of being able to follow orders really, really well.

It's easy to forget that many members of the services do jobs that don't exist in the civilian world. It's easy to forget that many returning vets enlisted at 18 and have had no practical training to ease their transition back to civilian life.

Re: Large Round of Layoffs Expected at Microsoft

#199

Post by thescrewdriver »

samirmenon wrote: post #192
wavegeek wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And it's not just tech. It also applies to countries. Look at the increasing resources that go to people who produce little or nothing of value to others eg lawyers, lobbyists, politicians, financial engineers, LBO operators etc. Not to mention many of the people on welfare.

You're saying that lawyers and politicians provide little or no value to others? Don't democracy and a fair legal system require good lawyers and politicians?

> You're saying that lawyers and politicians provide little or no value to others?

Looking at the state of many governments around the world he's probably being kind in his characterization.

Re: Large Round of Layoffs Expected at Microsoft

#200

Post by keithpeter »

crag wrote: post #126
fredophile wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with the military is how benefits are set up. There is a big jump in benefits at twenty years. If you put in 10-12 years your benefits aren't significantly better than someone who just did minimal time. If there was a small jump around the ten year point they'd probably see people willing to stop there instead of holding out 8-10 more years.

It's also a feeling of being stuck. I mean, you a 13B, where you gonna get a job? At Burger King? And you're (were) an E6; a platoon leader with responsibility for personnel and artillery equipment worth millions and now you're flipping burgers? I've always thought the Army needed a job training problem (maybe through the VA, if nothing else) where you could "un-learn" your military skills in favor of civilian skills…

"I've always thought the Army needed a job training problem (maybe through the VA, if nothing else) where you could "un-learn" your military skills in favor of civilian skills."

British Army has various qualifications of its own some of which can be 'mapped' over to civilian equivalents. Mainly technical areas plus management/supervisory. I can't find a clear single source of information but I know from ex-students that the process exists.

Nothing similar in US? Is this not one for the military to consider in terms of recruitment?

http://www.army.mod.uk/training_education/25236.aspx

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