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Intestinal bacteria may influence our moods

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Re: Intestinal bacteria may influence our moods

#41
post #29
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have Crohn's and I did the FODMAP diet when I had very severe symptoms. What I found: it does actually work and remediated a lot of my severe abdominal pain centered around eating (in conjunction with medication) BUT... I also found it absolutely miserable on its own. I think Soylent might be more appetizing to me by an order of magnitude. Good luck!

@Graeme (can't reply double-nested): I just found it to be very bland, boring and depressing. Chicken and rice, rice and chicken, tuna, rice crackers, blah. Go to the printer room in your office and start chewing on the printer paper/some cardboard in there. That's about how tasty the FODMAP diet is after about a week. It's even harder socially when you are restricted from basically everything on the menu. I guess yo…

Ok, interesting. I eat paleo, and I seem to unintentionally eat low fodmap. Sauerkraut and some onions are the only ones I eat regularly. I checked the wikipedia list.

But not much rice. I eat a lot of local, pastured meats, sweet potatoes, much coconut oil for cooking and seasonings, so it doesn't seem bland. I find chicken very bland and would have trouble eating it more than a few times per week.

Used to have digestive upset, though in my case I'm not convinced FODMAPS had anything to do with it (like I said, unintentionally low fodmap). Nightshades seemed to have the greatest correlation for me.

Re: Intestinal bacteria may influence our moods

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, no conflict of interest whatsoever...

First of all, they acknowledged the conflict of interest. Are you suggesting, based on zero evidence, that their findings were somehow fabricated - a claim that if true would ruin the careers and lives of the scientists at hand? While not unthinkable, it is a type of conspiracy theory thought. Should you have a problem with their methods, data acquisition, etc etc. then it would be a completely different story, but t…

I'm not arguing the science. It may be 100% correct. My issue the fact that a corporation with a very big upside is funding the research. That's all.

Think about it.

Re: Intestinal bacteria may influence our moods

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, no conflict of interest whatsoever...

First of all, they acknowledged the conflict of interest. Are you suggesting, based on zero evidence, that their findings were somehow fabricated - a claim that if true would ruin the careers and lives of the scientists at hand? While not unthinkable, it is a type of conspiracy theory thought. Should you have a problem with their methods, data acquisition, etc etc. then it would be a completely different story, but t…

> Are you suggesting, based on zero evidence, that their findings were somehow fabricated - a claim that if true would ruin the careers and lives of the scientists at hand?

It's usually more that if a researcher is trying to research something they really want to believe, it is extremely difficult to stay objective. Subconsciously, they can easily miss or overlook things that appear insignificant at first glance, but are actually very important.

Making note that there's a conflict of interest is very important, and when there is one, it's not unreasonable to wait for the experiment to be reproduced before really believing it.

Re: Intestinal bacteria may influence our moods

#44
The newspaper article by a freelance journalist kindly submitted here proved to be interesting to read all the way through, and prompted me to read all the comments here posted before I saw the thread, and also to look up the researchers mentioned in the article and the author of the article. There are interesting ideas here, but this is very preliminary research, based on early animal studies mentioned with human studies with very small n and a short time frame. ("The researchers gave 12 healthy women fermented milk containing a probiotic supplement made up of five different strains of bacteria thought to have a positive effect on the intestines. The women drank the milk two times a day over the course of four weeks. Another group of 11 women drank milk without probiotics.")

It's quite a bit too early to tell if altering your personal dietary habits will have any predictable long-term effects on your mood (the article title says "may" after all) and especially what alterations in intestinal microorganisms have what interaction with what other health outcomes.

So far, "modern life" appears to be good both for reducing mortality and reducing morbidity, as life expectancy at age 40, at age 60, and at even higher ages is still rising throughout the developed countries of the world.[1] A variety of incremental changes over the last century have allowed us all to enjoy longer, healthier lives than our ancestors a hundred years ago, as reported in an article in a series on Slate, "Why Are You Not Dead Yet? Life expectancy doubled in past 150 years. Here’s why."[2] If deeper understanding of the health effects of intestinal microorganisms leads to even more incremental improvement in disease prevention and treatment, and increase in healthy lifespan, that would be great. So I heartily support research on these topics. (I remember that the father of Freakonomics co-author Steven Levitt spent his career at my alma mater university studying intestinal gas with federal grants--I'm not making this up.) But we can't be sure yet what the recommended practice will be for how we eat or whether or not we should have particular microorganisms put into our intestines.

Meanwhile we can be happy that ongoing medical research and perhaps other factors we don't fully understand seem to be driving steady increases in healthy lifespan. Girls born since 2000 in the developed world are more likely than not to reach the age of 100, with boys likely to enjoy lifespans almost as long. The article "The Biodemography of Human Ageing"[3] by James Vaupel, originally published in the journal Nature in 2010, is a good current reference on the subject. Vaupel is one of the leading scholars on the demography of aging and how to adjust for time trends in life expectancy. His striking finding is "Humans are living longer than ever before. In fact, newborn children in high-income countries can expect to live to more than 100 years. Starting in the mid-1800s, human longevity has increased dramatically and life expectancy is increasing by an average of six hours a day."[4]

[1] http://www.nature.com/scientificamerican/journal/v307/n3/box...

[2] http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science_of_...

[3] http://www.demographic-challenge.com/files/downloads/2eb51e2...

[4] http://www.prb.org/Journalists/Webcasts/2010/humanlongevity....

Re: Intestinal bacteria may influence our moods

#45
post #25
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have Crohn's and I did the FODMAP diet when I had very severe symptoms. What I found: it does actually work and remediated a lot of my severe abdominal pain centered around eating (in conjunction with medication) BUT... I also found it absolutely miserable on its own. I think Soylent might be more appetizing to me by an order of magnitude. Good luck!

What did you find miserable about it? Elimination of certain foods or something part of what you were actually eating?

Replying to your paleo comment.

Yeah, I think for those of us with "Generic IBS" we need to be aggressive in trying out different approaches to try and heal our gut issues.

I went paleo once I realized wheat was causing me all sorts of stomach issues, and over the years I drifted more and more towards a "natural and whole food" diet, and as my intake of veggies grew, I realized that asparagus and brussel sprouts seemed to do a number of me. When I went to the gastroenterologist to try and figure out what was going on there, he first recommended drugs, which I declined, but he then suggested looking into the FODMAP diet, and it turned out that most fructans were triggers, as well as some polyols.

When I ate wheat, I suffered from tenesmus, depression, back acne, short-term memory loss, alternating constipation/diarrhea, migraines, etc. Now my only symptoms are diarrhea and some stomach pain when eating fructans. I'm hoping going FODMAP only will solve the remaining issues I have.

All that said, I'm just advocating that we try whatever we can so collectively we can get data on what works and what doesn't. If we just accept the doctors diagnosis of IBS and treat it with drugs, we'll never collectively solve the underlying problem.

Re: Intestinal bacteria may influence our moods

#47
post #38

I wonder if there's a strong correlation between those who suffer IBS and people working in this industry. Seems to me like the mentality to continually push forward and overwork/stress ourselves can only contribute to poorer health both mentally and physically. Personally I suffer from.. Hmm, I'd say IBS-D based on the classifications mentioned here, although my symptoms are fairly mild (however, very consistent - ~…

Good point. I'd be interested in knowing as well.

I stopped drinking sodas, alcohol and milk. That helped a lot. I also physically moved and started working from home. This combination has almost stopped the symptoms.

It seems like a combination of my diet, stress and overworking are the biggest factors for me.

Re: Intestinal bacteria may influence our moods

#48
post #4

Be very careful with probiotics; just loading your system with random strains of bacteria from your local health food store can have serious consequences. I have IBS and an anxiety disorder that had been in remission for years. I tried Primadophilus Optima and it wrecked me. I went from a mild IBS-C to severe IBS-D, and my panic attacks came back with an intensity unlike anything I've ever experienced. I don't doubt…

> I tried Primadophilus Optima and it wrecked me.

How can you be sure that taking probiotics for your IBS is the cause of your IBS getting worse?

Re: Intestinal bacteria may influence our moods

#49
post #36
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had IBS-D from about the age of 10 to the age of 29. I'm 42 now. What changed for me 13 years ago is that I learned that humans require eating dietary fiber and changed my diet to accomplish that. I eat about 40 grams of dietary fiber and drink at least a gallon of water every day. It actually takes work to reach this goal, but the plus side is that once I started doing this I have had no symptoms of IBS for the pa…

Do you have another other dietary restrictions, other than the fiber and water? Just curious. Thanks.

No other dietary restrictions.

Re: Intestinal bacteria may influence our moods

#50
post #4

Be very careful with probiotics; just loading your system with random strains of bacteria from your local health food store can have serious consequences. I have IBS and an anxiety disorder that had been in remission for years. I tried Primadophilus Optima and it wrecked me. I went from a mild IBS-C to severe IBS-D, and my panic attacks came back with an intensity unlike anything I've ever experienced. I don't doubt…

IBS seems like the doctors way of saying "We don't know what your problem is". Doctors told me I had IBS for 10 years, then a friend suggested to stop eating wheat, and 95% of my symptoms went away. I'm actually about to start testing a FODMAP diet to see if I can improve my health any further. Have you tried anything to improve your health, or did you just accept the IBS diagnosis? I only ask because I've seen no re…

I've tried eliminating wheat, sugar (in case it was fructose malabsorption), dairy, etc. I've tried tons of supplements like fish oil or vitamin D. Interestingly, each of those except dairy had very positive effects on my health in general (weight loss, clearer skin, elimination of seasonal depression) but had little effect on IBS symptoms.

What did improve it (but not eliminate it) was taking an SSRI, which isn't surprising since they have been shown to help in trials. My mother also has both IBS and an anxiety disorder, which is consistent with research showing that there is a genetic factor. I wouldn't be surprised if there are multiple possible underlying causes, but I really think IBS is a legitimate diagnosis.

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