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Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested by age 23

eurekalert.org

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Re: Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested by age 23

#321

Post by [deleted] »

mikecb wrote: post #320
tptacek wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a such thing as a non-custodial address, but that does not make every detention encounter with the police that doesn't result in you being taken into custody a "non-custodial arrest". By way of example: if you're issued a speeding ticket, the police do not gain the right to search your vehicle. But they do have that right if they arrest you.

> the police do not gain the right to search your vehicle. Depends. Just need probable cause. Motor vehicle exception. >But they do have that right if they arrest you. Depends. Search incident to arrest exception with automobile caveats. After Gant, if the arrestee no longer has access, or no reason to believe that evidence of the arrest offense will be found, not ok. (But still maybe ok to impound and inventory.)

[deleted]

Re: Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested by age 23

#322

Post by tptacek »

mikecb wrote: post #320
tptacek wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a such thing as a non-custodial address, but that does not make every detention encounter with the police that doesn't result in you being taken into custody a "non-custodial arrest". By way of example: if you're issued a speeding ticket, the police do not gain the right to search your vehicle. But they do have that right if they arrest you.

> the police do not gain the right to search your vehicle. Depends. Just need probable cause. Motor vehicle exception. >But they do have that right if they arrest you. Depends. Search incident to arrest exception with automobile caveats. After Gant, if the arrestee no longer has access, or no reason to believe that evidence of the arrest offense will be found, not ok. (But still maybe ok to impound and inventory.)

"Probable cause" is all an officer needs to arrest you, too.

Re: Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested by age 23

#323

Post by dragonwriter »

tptacek wrote: post #322
mikecb wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the police do not gain the right to search your vehicle. Depends. Just need probable cause. Motor vehicle exception. >But they do have that right if they arrest you. Depends. Search incident to arrest exception with automobile caveats. After Gant, if the arrestee no longer has access, or no reason to believe that evidence of the arrest offense will be found, not ok. (But still maybe ok to impound and inventory.)

"Probable cause" is all an officer needs to arrest you, too.

Right, but the "probable cause" is technically different -- for a search without arrest, they need probable cause to believe that there is contraband in the car, for arrest they need probable cause to believe you have committed a crime. Given that possession of contraband is itself a crime (though generally one with a mental state requirement), there is quite a lot of overlap between the two kinds of "probable cause", but they aren't equivalent.

Re: Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested by age 23

#324

Post by tptacek »

dragonwriter wrote: post #323
tptacek wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Probable cause" is all an officer needs to arrest you, too.

Right, but the "probable cause" is technically different -- for a search without arrest, they need probable cause to believe that there is contraband in the car, for arrest they need probable cause to believe you have committed a crime. Given that possession of contraband is itself a crime (though generally one with a mental state requirement), there is quite a lot of overlap between the two kinds of "probable cause"…

Yeah, that seems like an important distinction. Thanks.

Re: Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested by age 23

#325

Post by coldtea »

Kiro wrote: post #288
coldtea wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Honestly, I'm not sure that police involvement for this stuff is a bad thing. Schools are no longer equipped to handle violence between students, and it's questionable whether they ever were. I don't know, they are perfecty fine to "handle violence between students" in Western Europe, and without metal detectors and police on site. Perhaps it's time for the society to recheck it's course, instead of throwing jail t…

I don't agree. School in Western Europe can be a horrifying experience where the only solution is that the person being beaten up transfers to another school. Nothing is done about the people beating.

I don't know. I went to school there, and there was absolutely zero (or 0.01% cases) of beating I'm aware of. In a whole region of 130.000 people.

Perhaps that's the case in some down and out regions in England or France, with rampant poverty and ex-industrial towns/suburbs (think Detroit).

But not in the majority of Western Europe. Some guys getting into a fight, sure. But beatings are not an occurance in schools, the same way guns aren't.

Re: Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested by age 23

#326

Post by coldtea »

pyre wrote: post #218
coldtea wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Curfew, the law that says you can't be outside after an arbitrarily dictated time. We had curfew laws in my country too. Mostly during German occupation, under World War II. I'm amazed people in the "land of the free" even have such a law...

Curfew laws are mostly aimed at children and don't apply to adults. Would you draw parallels between the government legislating that 'school-aged' children must go to school and the US decreeing that all Japanese people on the west coast must go to internment camps? Probably not.

>Would you draw parallels between the government legislating that 'school-aged' children must go to school and the US decreeing that all Japanese people on the west coast must go to internment camps? Probably not.

Sure, why not? It's a little worse with the Japanese people case, because of the racism involved, but on the other hand, it was an era of war between the two countries.

Byt curfew for children? Even children aged 14 or 15 years old? That's no business of the law.

Re: Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested by age 23

#327

Post by silverbax88 »

opendais wrote: post #315
silverbax88 wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you said something in a public forum, you can't have it expunged. You can address previous remarks, you can state a thousand times that you were wrong, but it cannot and should not be expunged. I don't see why someone's arrest record should be hidden unless they were exonerated or there were specific circumstances for doing so. We're not asking search engines to ignore public data. The EU is telling search engines…

> I don't see why someone's arrest record should be hidden unless they were exonerated or there were specific circumstances for doing so. The problem you aren't getting is that for the poor and anyone who can't afford a lawyer...this doesn't happen. The exceptions are notable nationwide media coverage types.

I am not sure what you are referring to. I was talking about the laws in relation to the original comment, which was related to whether the 'right to be forgotten' was a good law or a bad law.

I never said anything remotely related to whether it was administered correctly or not, or how effective it was in any way.

Re: Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested by age 23

#328

Post by mikecb »

tptacek wrote: post #322
mikecb wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the police do not gain the right to search your vehicle. Depends. Just need probable cause. Motor vehicle exception. >But they do have that right if they arrest you. Depends. Search incident to arrest exception with automobile caveats. After Gant, if the arrestee no longer has access, or no reason to believe that evidence of the arrest offense will be found, not ok. (But still maybe ok to impound and inventory.)

"Probable cause" is all an officer needs to arrest you, too.

I won't repeat dragonwriter, but I wasn't criticizing, just pointing out that your statements aren't absolute rules. They just tend to be the simplest statements of the rules that exist.

Also with arrest, lower standard for if they think evidence will be found. It's the RAS-like "reasonable to believe" that evidence of the crime will be discovered.

Re: Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested by age 23

#329

Post by barrkel »

EpicEng wrote: post #273
skittles wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The U.S. is overly protective of children and young adults. We can't drink alcohol until 21 and many cities have curfew laws for kids up to the age of 16 or so. My city has a curfew for those 16 and under. They can't be out after 11 pm during the week and after 12:30 am on weekends.

Well, I don't know; why are 15 year olds walking the streets at 1 a.m.? Something is wrong there 99.99% of the time. I don't think they should be arrested though, just returned home. I had cuffs thrown on me for curfew when I was 16 or so. No arrest, but seriously, cuffed and thrown into a pen.

Me, I was walking home from a friend's house after staying up late pair programming on the weekend.

Me, in '95. No curfews in Ireland, of course.

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