Wouldn't this make all ISPs illegal in Austria then? What is the difference that Austrian law sees between a TOR exit provider and an ISP as far as enabling criminal action? Is it only the differentiation between natural and legal persons?
Tor exit node operator prosecuted in Austria
141–149 of 149 posts
Re: Tor exit node operator prosecuted in Austria
#142Re: Tor exit node operator prosecuted in Austria
#143Earlier quoted context omitted.
A great job?? Can't expect them to do their job? Did you see the outcome of DE-Mail? There is a great presentation about it at ccc-videos. The CCC is currently not advising but sueing the german government. It has also received 0 media attention since it was announced and i am sure it will just fall flat after being stalled for a few years. GG CCC HF Germany.
That one was disappointing for sure. I guess you can't win them all. The government not listening to them all the time doesn't mean they didn't do a great job though. Last time I voted I didn't see any fancy touch screens (to name one accomplishment). I didn't say "can't expect them to do their job". I said you can't expect them to keep up with _everything_. Their job is to make legal decisions to the best of their a…
Do you work for der Spiegel? ;3
Re: Tor exit node operator prosecuted in Austria
#144Earlier quoted context omitted.
"In the end, what got us was not AIDS, social injustice or a stealthy black hole. The second the first artificial intelligence awakened, charged with keeping peace in a college campus, it managed to exploit its way around the globe and waged war on all systems with laws, protocols and contracts. Creating rules allowed for them to be broken. By breaking rules, criminals were created. Rules prescribe punishment. At the…
What are you quoting here?
Not certain, but the writing style is similar to Orwell's 1984.
Re: Tor exit node operator prosecuted in Austria
#145Earlier quoted context omitted.
When someone is condamned for something online-related (piracy, CP, etc.), we should obviously arrest all the owners of routers between the source and the target. They are accomplice because they helped the data to transit. That's only commom sense ! /s
Just running network equipment doesn't make you aware of it's use though. Tor users know through high-profile cases that Tor is being used for drugs deals and other criminal activities - but they run the exit nodes in the face of this. I'm not saying the law is correct (nor wrong) just that the application appears to be valid. Yes, there are high-moral reasons to run an exit node too.
Well, Tor is used ONLY for criminal activities. That's its entire point. You're in a state where talking to the Americans is a criminal activity punishable by beheading. So you use Tor to talk to them. I'm almost certain that activities which are criminal in the USA outnumber activities which are criminal in some oppressive regime on the Tor network. That's only because it's a damn good and secure network and we have less people standing against oppressive regimes than we have ones standing against USA law.
You can't have a really secure anonymous untraceable network, but also monitor everyone on it for illegal activity. The entire point of that network is illegal activity, for local definitions of illegal.
Re: Tor exit node operator prosecuted in Austria
#146Earlier quoted context omitted.
It means absolutely nothing. Austria does not follow the common law doctrine of stare decisis , where each case is bound to follow whatever reasoning is used by a superior court. (Note that "constant jurisprudence" is completely different and is not really binding, since higher court chambers do not have stable composition and as such their reasoning may not be consistent.) A different court is allowed to use complet…
> Austria's women and landscapes are beautiful. Austria's legal system, not so much. I think our legal system is pretty good to be honest. (Then again, I also pretty much agree with the fact that TOR exit nodes are not compatible with Austrian law.)
How do you argue that running a TOR exit node is not compatible with Austrian law while running an ISP is?
Re: Tor exit node operator prosecuted in Austria
#147Re: Tor exit node operator prosecuted in Austria
#148Earlier quoted context omitted.
Maybe, and I realise this sounds borderline crazy, but hear me out. Maybe we shouldn't be running TOR exit nodes personally. It seems to me a couple of people should form a nonprofit company to run the node and distance themselves from liability that way. You'll still need to shut it down if your company is found guilty of running a server that was used to distribute bad bits, but it would be more "we wanted to make…
Unfortunately, setting up a limited liability corporation tend to require substantial funding up front, I believe several months worth of median income in many places. I'm afraid your advice actually reduces to "be rich, because poor people get squashed like bugs". (Of course, another possibility is to rally many people to your cause. Then you can fund your expensive legal structure with poor people.)
Hmm, that varies from place to place, but yes - not cheap. Aren't there also different fees depending on whether it's for-profit or not?
Obviously you'd set it up with more people, there obviously are enough who want to contribute to Tor. You'd gather capital, sign some up as co-founders and use what you can to buy colocation and set up servers. I wonder if you could also switch things around and colocate in people's homes by renting the property and paying for a residential connection, then renting it back to whoever lived there originally at the original fee. Basically, you create a company, have it rent an apartment and pay for a connection, then you rent the apartment and connection from the company, which should end up with you (legally) having (nearly) nothing at all to do with the black box in the corner that connects to the internet.
Re: Tor exit node operator prosecuted in Austria
#149Earlier quoted context omitted.
"In the end, what got us was not AIDS, social injustice or a stealthy black hole. The second the first artificial intelligence awakened, charged with keeping peace in a college campus, it managed to exploit its way around the globe and waged war on all systems with laws, protocols and contracts. Creating rules allowed for them to be broken. By breaking rules, criminals were created. Rules prescribe punishment. At the…
What are you quoting here?
I made that up. The "'s were just to make the text appear to have a context elsewhere.