Tor exit node operator prosecuted in Austria • Hacker News Board

Re: Tor exit node operator prosecuted in Austria

#31

Post by igl » Wed, Jul 02, 2014, 1:30 PM UTC

teamhappy wrote: post #13

PythonicAlpha wrote: post #6

It seems, in many countries, the knowledge and the acknowledgement of technical facts is very much lacking, both in legislative authorities and in courts.

You can't expect them to keep up with everything. Important is who they turn to for guidance. The CCC does a great job advising law makers and law enforcement in Germany and the EFF tries really hard to play a similar role in the US. The Tor Project itself works directly with law enforcement as well (pretty much globally as far as I know).

A great job?? Can't expect them to do their job? Did you see the outcome of DE-Mail? There is a great presentation about it at ccc-videos.

The CCC is currently not advising but sueing the german government. It has also received 0 media attention since it was announced and i am sure it will just fall flat after being stalled for a few years. GG CCC HF Germany.

Re: Tor exit node operator prosecuted in Austria

#32

Post by 4ad » Wed, Jul 02, 2014, 1:33 PM UTC

I live in Austria, used to ran a TOR relay and this worries me deeply. I am unsure what to do.

Re: Tor exit node operator prosecuted in Austria

#33

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jul 02, 2014, 1:34 PM UTC

fredsted wrote: post #10

Is this is the "big brother" plan to eradicate anonymity services? Just argue "child porn!" and arrest everyone? The law quoted was: >Not only the immediate perpetator commits a criminal action, but also anyone who appoints someone to carry it out, or anyone who otherwise contributes to the completion of said criminal action. Anyone who contributes? Wouldn't this include ISPs or perhaps even the application server te…

[deleted]

Re: Tor exit node operator prosecuted in Austria

#34

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jul 02, 2014, 1:36 PM UTC

4ad wrote: post #32

I live in Austria, used to ran a TOR relay and this worries me deeply. I am unsure what to do.

[deleted]

Re: Tor exit node operator prosecuted in Austria

#35

Post by xbadxapple » Wed, Jul 02, 2014, 1:36 PM UTC

fredsted wrote: post #10

Is this is the "big brother" plan to eradicate anonymity services? Just argue "child porn!" and arrest everyone? The law quoted was: >Not only the immediate perpetator commits a criminal action, but also anyone who appoints someone to carry it out, or anyone who otherwise contributes to the completion of said criminal action. Anyone who contributes? Wouldn't this include ISPs or perhaps even the application server te…

Unfortunately the mainstream media has taken a stern stance of building a negative image of those services. You always get to read how it's full of pedophiles and drug traffic. The fact that such services help dissident journalists, bloggers or political figures or are invaluable in case of repressive internet shut-down seems to escape their spotlight.

This generalization of tech phenomenon which can be used for both good and bad deeds has led to extreme paranoia. Hence such harsh sweeps when dealing with it, I guess. Those who are under the effect of the judgement are also a part of yet another generalization encompassing an undefined, ridiculously big network of "criminals".

Re: Tor exit node operator prosecuted in Austria

#36

Post by the_mitsuhiko » Wed, Jul 02, 2014, 1:37 PM UTC

4ad wrote: post #32

I live in Austria, used to ran a TOR relay and this worries me deeply. I am unsure what to do.

Just stop running a TOR relay?

Re: Tor exit node operator prosecuted in Austria

#37

Post by mahouse » Wed, Jul 02, 2014, 1:42 PM UTC

4ad wrote: post #32

I live in Austria, used to ran a TOR relay and this worries me deeply. I am unsure what to do.

But this is a problem only if it's an exit node, right?

Re: Tor exit node operator prosecuted in Austria

#38

Post by teamhappy » Wed, Jul 02, 2014, 1:46 PM UTC

igl wrote: post #31

teamhappy wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't expect them to keep up with everything. Important is who they turn to for guidance. The CCC does a great job advising law makers and law enforcement in Germany and the EFF tries really hard to play a similar role in the US. The Tor Project itself works directly with law enforcement as well (pretty much globally as far as I know).

A great job?? Can't expect them to do their job? Did you see the outcome of DE-Mail? There is a great presentation about it at ccc-videos. The CCC is currently not advising but sueing the german government. It has also received 0 media attention since it was announced and i am sure it will just fall flat after being stalled for a few years. GG CCC HF Germany.

That one was disappointing for sure. I guess you can't win them all. The government not listening to them all the time doesn't mean they didn't do a great job though. Last time I voted I didn't see any fancy touch screens (to name one accomplishment).

I didn't say "can't expect them to do their job". I said you can't expect them to keep up with _everything_. Their job is to make legal decisions to the best of their abilities.

Re: Tor exit node operator prosecuted in Austria

#39

Post by the_mitsuhiko » Wed, Jul 02, 2014, 1:46 PM UTC

esbranson wrote: post #17

EthanV2 wrote: post #3

Does this mean that Austrian ISPs can be prosecuted if their customers use their connections to transmit "content of an illegal nature"? Surely the ISP knows that some of their customers could use their services for illicit purposes, meaning they're "guilty of complicity" themselves.

It means absolutely nothing. Austria does not follow the common law doctrine of stare decisis , where each case is bound to follow whatever reasoning is used by a superior court. (Note that "constant jurisprudence" is completely different and is not really binding, since higher court chambers do not have stable composition and as such their reasoning may not be consistent.) A different court is allowed to use complet…

> Austria's women and landscapes are beautiful. Austria's legal system, not so much.

I think our legal system is pretty good to be honest. (Then again, I also pretty much agree with the fact that TOR exit nodes are not compatible with Austrian law.)

Re: Tor exit node operator prosecuted in Austria

#40

Post by the_mitsuhiko » Wed, Jul 02, 2014, 1:47 PM UTC

giancarlostoro wrote: post #22

fredsted wrote: post #10

Is this is the "big brother" plan to eradicate anonymity services? Just argue "child porn!" and arrest everyone? The law quoted was: >Not only the immediate perpetator commits a criminal action, but also anyone who appoints someone to carry it out, or anyone who otherwise contributes to the completion of said criminal action. Anyone who contributes? Wouldn't this include ISPs or perhaps even the application server te…

Lawmakers aren't as intelligent as programmers. What's worse is, instead of just telling him to turn off the exit node now he's seen as a criminal by the system for doing absolutely nothing. Imagine applying for a job and trying to explain to them why you were arrested, especially if the interviewer is not tech savvy it might not look so good.

> Lawmakers aren't as intelligent as programmers. What's worse is, instead of just telling him to turn off the exit node now he's seen as a criminal by the system for doing absolutely nothing. Imagine applying for a job and trying to explain to them why you were arrested, especially if the interviewer is not tech savvy it might not look so good.

He did not receive a criminal record.