Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tor exit node operator prosecuted in Austria

network23.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 149 posts

Re: Tor exit node operator prosecuted in Austria

#21

Post by VMG »

fredsted wrote: post #10

Is this is the "big brother" plan to eradicate anonymity services? Just argue "child porn!" and arrest everyone? The law quoted was: >Not only the immediate perpetator commits a criminal action, but also anyone who appoints someone to carry it out, or anyone who otherwise contributes to the completion of said criminal action. Anyone who contributes? Wouldn't this include ISPs or perhaps even the application server te…

Assuming Darknet technology is improved to the point that "exit nodes" become unnecessary (something like BitMessage), the next target would be developers of such software and developers of cryptography software in general.

Re: Tor exit node operator prosecuted in Austria

#22

Post by giancarlostoro »

fredsted wrote: post #10

Is this is the "big brother" plan to eradicate anonymity services? Just argue "child porn!" and arrest everyone? The law quoted was: >Not only the immediate perpetator commits a criminal action, but also anyone who appoints someone to carry it out, or anyone who otherwise contributes to the completion of said criminal action. Anyone who contributes? Wouldn't this include ISPs or perhaps even the application server te…

Lawmakers aren't as intelligent as programmers. What's worse is, instead of just telling him to turn off the exit node now he's seen as a criminal by the system for doing absolutely nothing. Imagine applying for a job and trying to explain to them why you were arrested, especially if the interviewer is not tech savvy it might not look so good.

Re: Tor exit node operator prosecuted in Austria

#23

Post by malka »

fredsted wrote: post #10

Is this is the "big brother" plan to eradicate anonymity services? Just argue "child porn!" and arrest everyone? The law quoted was: >Not only the immediate perpetator commits a criminal action, but also anyone who appoints someone to carry it out, or anyone who otherwise contributes to the completion of said criminal action. Anyone who contributes? Wouldn't this include ISPs or perhaps even the application server te…

When someone is condamned for something online-related (piracy, CP, etc.), we should obviously arrest all the owners of routers between the source and the target. They are accomplice because they helped the data to transit. That's only commom sense !

/s

Re: Tor exit node operator prosecuted in Austria

#25

Post by jjoergensen »

oafitupa wrote: post #15
[deleted] wrote: post #12

[deleted]

Wrong thread? The guy got prosecuted for running a Tor node, not for committing a crime and failing to stay anonymous.

The government is prosecuting a guy for running a system that their own intelligence agency (and their allies) are depending on. A system that is funded by U.S. federal government.

Re: Tor exit node operator prosecuted in Austria

#27

Post by devicenull »

phillc73 wrote: post #16
EthanV2 wrote: post #3

Does this mean that Austrian ISPs can be prosecuted if their customers use their connections to transmit "content of an illegal nature"? Surely the ISP knows that some of their customers could use their services for illicit purposes, meaning they're "guilty of complicity" themselves.

I have a VPS with an Austrian ISP. Their Ts&Cs already state the following are specifically not allowed: Tor/i2p/similar exit servers (bridge, entry and middle are fine until further notice) Last update was Jan 17th, 2014, but this clause has been included for as long as I have been a customer, which is a couple of years. So, I would say at least some Austrian ISPs are aware of the risk.

It's much more likely that they just don't want to deal with the endless stream of DMCA notices that tor exit servers tend to attract.

Re: Tor exit node operator prosecuted in Austria

#28

Post by malka »

icehawk219 wrote: post #18
lawl wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Came here and to post this too. It's really a shame how the current system of law enforcement is designed to destroy completely destroy people. I'm idling in some of the same public IRC channels as will (since way before he was raided for running a TOR node) it was/is painful to watch how this completely destroyed him. It has really put me off, and probably many others, from ever hosting a TOR node, which might what…

It has really put me off, and probably many others, from ever hosting a TOR node The cynic in me can't help but assume that that's the entire point.

The realist in me can't help but assume that that's the entire point.

Re: Tor exit node operator prosecuted in Austria

#29

Post by shabble »

kriro wrote: post #19
EthanV2 wrote: post #3

Does this mean that Austrian ISPs can be prosecuted if their customers use their connections to transmit "content of an illegal nature"? Surely the ISP knows that some of their customers could use their services for illicit purposes, meaning they're "guilty of complicity" themselves.

AFAIK, in Germany (I know the article is about Austria but I'd guess their laws are similar) you can be held responsible if something illegal is conducted through your network (usually open WLANs). It's called "Störerhaftung" and is pretty crazy because it essentially means every grandmother has to become a sysadmin of sorts. This is used a lot in film download trials etc. ISPs are explicitly excluded from this and n…

> ISPs are explicitly excluded from this and not held responsible.

Time to form a shell company in the ISP business to host your Tor servers, then?

Or are there specific requirements that would prevent such a plan (recordkeeping seems like the obvious one)

Re: Tor exit node operator prosecuted in Austria

#30

Post by phillc73 »

devicenull wrote: post #27
phillc73 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a VPS with an Austrian ISP. Their Ts&Cs already state the following are specifically not allowed: Tor/i2p/similar exit servers (bridge, entry and middle are fine until further notice) Last update was Jan 17th, 2014, but this clause has been included for as long as I have been a customer, which is a couple of years. So, I would say at least some Austrian ISPs are aware of the risk.

It's much more likely that they just don't want to deal with the endless stream of DMCA notices that tor exit servers tend to attract.

Same Ts&Cs have country specific sections (they have server options in multiple countries) and for Austria also says:

DMCA is mainly ignored due to being invalid, EUCD is to be followed.

Post reply on HN