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A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

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Re: A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

#421

Post by wdr1 »

rayiner wrote: post #27

This was the result of a no-knock warrant: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-knock_warrant , which allows police to enter a home without prior warning, on the theory that giving notice will allow people inside to destroy evidence. They are almost uniquely a product of the drug war. One can imagine very few situations outside of drugs were evidence could be so easily destroyed as to justify a no-knock warrant.

> They are almost uniquely a product of the drug war.

I see no evidence of this.

In addition to preserving evidence, they are also issue when it's believe there could be an issue of officer safety. (E.g., someone armed & dangerous.)

Re: A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

#422

Post by moo »

LyndsySimon wrote: post #414
moo wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The paramilitary home invasions authorized by U.S. injustice system is a small part of the increased militarization of the police who use military tactics and decommissioned military hardware stemming from the over decade long military interventions in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Somalia. Also "middle America", European descendant U.S. citizens have little altruism for homeless, undocumented and oppressed nation peoples (…

I'm easily a member of the "European descendant US citizens", and I don't exactly have a lot of say in it either. I also find it odd that you included "stand your ground" laws in there. Those laws would actually protect a homeowner using deadly force in opposition to this type of raid in many cases. I spend a large part of my free time engaged in the online firearms enthusiast community, and I can assure you that no…

Jose Guerena was armed and a Marine vet protecting his family but Tuscon SWAT still killed him(1). But it can go the other way as police have been shot and killed in paramilitary raids. I brought up "stand your ground" laws as indicative of middle America's mindset for more lethal response to the perceived criminal threat in their communities. That mindset has also included support for harsher sentencing and more police, even as the "police industrial complex" grows more into a police state and military occupation.

(1)http://rt.com/usa/168072-us-drugs-swat-police/

Re: A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

#423

Post by BrandonMarc »

ZachPruckowski wrote: post #357
robrenaud wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How hard is it to just wait until the suspected dealer leaves the house, and then use the warrant? It seems simultaneously safer and more effective than a no knock warrant.

Fairly hard actually - you've got to stakeout the house without being detected and tail the guy when he leaves. Plus you may not know how many folks were in the house in the first place (and thus how many are still there when the main guy leaves) - you could wind up raiding a house full of awake and semi-alert criminals with guns and have a bloodbath on your hands. Additionally, the idea of this sort of raid is to ar…

you've got to stakeout the house without being detected and tail the guy when he leaves

Hmm ... so, you know, do actual police work? Carefully investigate, all that crap? Nah ... easier to move in with both surprise and massively overwhelming force. And if somebody sneezes and a few of the officers' guns go off in response, well, nothing to see here folks, move along.

They lost my vote with the lie about the toddler "losing a tooth".

Re: A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

#425

Post by A_COMPUTER »

chc wrote: post #229
danielsiders wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also in general the severity of the charge is directly proportional to the quantity of drugs. So if the quantity is instantly flushable, how serious of a charge can it have been, and thus how much accidental damage is acceptable in the arrest?

OK, so, to the best of my knowledge, 1 kg of cocaine is worth about $20K. Assuming cocaine has roughly the density of baking soda, this amount ought to be easily disposable in a single flush. So you could flush $100K worth of coke down a toilet in under a minute.

No, it takes at least two flushes.

Re: A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

#426

Post by A_COMPUTER »

moo wrote: post #376
einrealist wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like in the the other European countries, too. If someone pulls a knife or even a pistol in Germany, the police will try its best to save even the offenders life - even if it takes hours.

The paramilitary home invasions authorized by U.S. injustice system is a small part of the increased militarization of the police who use military tactics and decommissioned military hardware stemming from the over decade long military interventions in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Somalia. Also "middle America", European descendant U.S. citizens have little altruism for homeless, undocumented and oppressed nation peoples (…

The militarization of the police predates Iraq 2 by at least a decade, it was happening under the Clinton administration, who authorized letting national guard equipment be loaned to police for any activity that could be plausibly connected to drugs.

I knew about it because my dad was a member of the NRA. The big, bad NRA used to write about police militarization and criminal abuses of force by federal agencies every single month in their member publication, they seemed presciently worried about the encroaching police state two decades before most people. Instead of reporting the same stories of government abuse the NRA aggregated from regional media, the national media painted them as anti-government for calling BATF agents "jack-booted thugs" (because they were) and for saying "in Clinton's administration, if you have a badge, you have the government's go-ahead to harass, intimidate, even murder law-abiding citizens." (because they did, and still do today under two successive administrations.)

Re: A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

#427

Post by jeroen94704 »

rqebmm wrote: post #256
jeroen94704 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That, exactly. And I simply cannot fathom how the response to a flash-bang grenade in a cot with a child in it can ever be "well, obviously there was no way for us to know there were children, so don't blame us" instead of "OH MY GOD WHAT HAVE WE DONE WE'RE SO SORRY!"

lawsuits, that's how.

Yeah, sadly enough.

Re: A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

#428

Post by elementai »

henryw wrote: post #307
rayiner wrote: post #27

This was the result of a no-knock warrant: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-knock_warrant , which allows police to enter a home without prior warning, on the theory that giving notice will allow people inside to destroy evidence. They are almost uniquely a product of the drug war. One can imagine very few situations outside of drugs were evidence could be so easily destroyed as to justify a no-knock warrant.

Knocking down the door, okay fine. But did they really need to throw in a flashbang? Maybe they could have used some kind of thermal vision to see through the wall for children.

Or, they could like look around the house and spot children toys lying around the front yard.

Re: A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

#429

Post by vsl »

dllthomas wrote: post #419
rdtsc wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is their response. It is not coherent, but this is not propositional logic. This is a militarized force that cannot be punished for their abuses, can and does inflict those abuses as will and it attracts saddists and psychopaths that cover each other asses. You are trying to come up with technical solutions (oh install sewer traps). The problem is not technical. It legal, and regulatory. There is no, 0, nada, zi…

They may not care, but the rest of us do.

The point is that there's nothing you can do. You are not the one making the choice. Hence the only solution is to restrain the police.

Re: A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

#430

Post by yaeger »

elementai wrote: post #428
henryw wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Knocking down the door, okay fine. But did they really need to throw in a flashbang? Maybe they could have used some kind of thermal vision to see through the wall for children.

Or, they could like look around the house and spot children toys lying around the front yard.

Yeah, who needs attack dogs or weapons to secure your illegal operation? Just scatter some toys in the front yard and park a mini van with stick figure family in front. Done. No police will ever barge in on your operation as clearly "kids live there"
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