Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

salon.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

401–410 of 464 posts

Re: A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

#401

Post by PaulAJ »

jacquesm wrote: post #310
rayiner wrote: post #27

This was the result of a no-knock warrant: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-knock_warrant , which allows police to enter a home without prior warning, on the theory that giving notice will allow people inside to destroy evidence. They are almost uniquely a product of the drug war. One can imagine very few situations outside of drugs were evidence could be so easily destroyed as to justify a no-knock warrant.

The risk of some evidence being destroyed versus potentially killing a kid (and in this case 'luckily' only wounding that kid) seems to be an easy choice. To protect and serve and all that.

Not exactly minor wounds. Life threatening and life changing injuries. Even if he survives, his parents are going to spend the rest of their lives dealing with the aftermath.

Why isn't this headline news across America?

Re: A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

#402

Post by mentat »

ZachPruckowski wrote: post #357
robrenaud wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How hard is it to just wait until the suspected dealer leaves the house, and then use the warrant? It seems simultaneously safer and more effective than a no knock warrant.

Fairly hard actually - you've got to stakeout the house without being detected and tail the guy when he leaves. Plus you may not know how many folks were in the house in the first place (and thus how many are still there when the main guy leaves) - you could wind up raiding a house full of awake and semi-alert criminals with guns and have a bloodbath on your hands. Additionally, the idea of this sort of raid is to ar…

It's not my responsibility to give up my rights to make the police safe. They exist in balance and this is not the balance I accept.

Re: A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

#404

Post by mentat »

hyperliner wrote: post #218
clarkmoody wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the mentality among the police is "I'm going home tonight, no matter what." Given the opportunity to wear body armor and carry a rifle when confronting a perceived threat, many will take it.

I think that is the mentality they need. I rather have a dead criminal than a dead police officer. Unfortunately, mistakes will always happen, so this OP piece, while unfortunately, will continue to happen. This time it happened to be a baby, which makes matters a lot more terrible for all involved.

I'd rather have a live child and a dead police officer. That's part of their job, the risk.

Re: A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

#405

Post by [deleted] »

vlunkr wrote: post #281
johngalt wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The police threw a grenade into an innocent child's crib. Nothing you've said ends in '...and that's why they clearly had to burn a hole two year old'. > Don't be a criminal and don't associate with criminals and this doesn't happen to you. Ok, but how far does this 'association' go? Where is your line where the excessive police response isn't justified. We can already see that your line is past throwing grenades at…

Thank you for this. It's true that associating with criminals makes it more likely that things like this will happen to you, but that doesn't justify it. A child getting hospitalized is excessive collateral damage for something indirectly related to the family.

[deleted]

Re: A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

#406

Post by johngalt »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #244
jmccree wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure the poor child's situation is a direct result of a flash bang 'distractionary device' being thrown into his crib by law enforcement. The suspect was NOT in the house, and they found NO DRUGS in the house. As for having a semi-auto firearm, um every other single house in Habersham county probably has one or more semi-autos, big deal. This was a poor family in a bad situation, that the poorly trained sh…

> Is one grenaded baby worth finding even 100lbs of meth? Not to me. // Does it matter if the meth might be causing far more pain to more people? This https://www.google.com/search?q=mother+on+meth+kills+child gives a lot of pretty stark reading material.

How many fewer people are doing meth because of this raid?

Re: A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

#407

Post by katbyte »

PaulAJ wrote: post #401
jacquesm wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The risk of some evidence being destroyed versus potentially killing a kid (and in this case 'luckily' only wounding that kid) seems to be an easy choice. To protect and serve and all that.

Not exactly minor wounds. Life threatening and life changing injuries. Even if he survives, his parents are going to spend the rest of their lives dealing with the aftermath. Why isn't this headline news across America?

And what about the life long hospital bills?

Re: A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

#408

Post by katbyte »

EpicEng wrote: post #374
mickdarling wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This may sound silly, but it seems like there could be a MythBusters episode specifically on this to prove or disprove how likely these no-knock raids are needed to prevent an effective coverup of evidence. They could actually make some actionable data for public good.

Well, anecdotally, I've been in a house full of drugs when the cops showed up, and those drugs were gone before the cops stepped foot in the house. Yes, I had a not-so-optimal childhood.

Could you share how this was accomplished?

Re: A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

#409

Post by kika »

clarkmoody wrote: post #368
kika wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd appreciate if you'll find a flaw in the following: 1. Officer wants to return home no matter what. 2. He/she decides to use as much firepower as possible to achieve that - 50 cal guns, military grade armor, armored cards, explosives, grenades, rockets, whatever. 3. I have a risk of getting caught in the situation like this. I live in bad neighborhood, my brother sells weed, I had police encounters in the past, wh…

Well if you are in the home of someone who deals drugs, then you are placing yourself at risk. To achieve (4), you must either a) move elsewhere or b) cooperate with police to arrest your brother. I'm assuming you are currently not doing anything overtly illegal yourself. If you do (5), then the police simply bring that shiny new MRAP they got from the DoD and park it in your yard and turn on some spotlights. Then th…

That makes sense, thanks. I have an issue with 'police thought' though. I was flying through the US airspace once and the plane made a stop at Seattle. We get off the plane, had a snack (and smoke) and then boarded the plane again. I realized shortly afterwards that somebody confiscated my "Knife" magazine (I bought it at the departure airport and the mag was mostly about some survival bullshit and other "tactical" stuff). As I learned (with the help of the crew and reading stuff online later) DHS searches and confiscates "suspicious" items. Now, do I have a trail or not? What if that magazine was about automatic weapons? Explosives? Controlled substance chemistry? Nuclear physics? Islam? Christianity? Patriotism? Tea party?..oh, shi...

Re: A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

#410

Post by rdtsc »

dllthomas wrote: post #393
rdtsc wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not worse, it is still easier to throw a flash grenade in a crib. Worst case they get time off with pay while and internal investigation by their friends determine that procedures are followed.

This doesn't feel like a coherent response to my comment.

That is their response. It is not coherent, but this is not propositional logic. This is a militarized force that cannot be punished for their abuses, can and does inflict those abuses as will and it attracts saddists and psychopaths that cover each other asses.

You are trying to come up with technical solutions (oh install sewer traps). The problem is not technical. It legal, and regulatory. There is no, 0, nada, zilch repercussion for just throwing a flash grenade in barge in. Why install sewer traps and spends all that money? That is irrational from their point of view.

The floor boards and all that sewer stuff is just noise. All those "problems" are just a list hurdles they will never and or even think about solving, that was the main point.

Post reply on HN