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A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

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Re: A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

#211

Post by bluedino »

frandroid wrote: post #76
peterkelly wrote: post #20

I'm struggling to understand how any of the officers on the SWAT team - or, for that matter, those who formulated the policies to use tools like M-16s and flash grenades in drug raids - could possibly consider their actions to be less serious than someone taking or dealing in drugs.

The drug war is a race war. It has little to do with drugs. They're not going after white coke/pot users/dealers very much, are they?

The majority of your 'white coke' or powder cocaine busts are of Hispanic dealers (that's how it gets into the country and distributed to the big cities). Crack busts on the other hand were almost exclusively Africa-American dealers. They'd make crack out of powder cocaine once it got to their neighborhoods.

Re: A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

#212

Post by a3n »

rayiner wrote: post #85
peterkelly wrote: post #20

I'm struggling to understand how any of the officers on the SWAT team - or, for that matter, those who formulated the policies to use tools like M-16s and flash grenades in drug raids - could possibly consider their actions to be less serious than someone taking or dealing in drugs.

You're missing the social context here. First, this is never about using it's about dealing. Police enforcement efforts are almost entirely preoccupied with trafficking. Second, dealers are, by and large, bad people for other reasons. Your suburban pot dealer isn't the target of no-knock raids. The targets are guys with long rap sheets of felony convictions, often for violent crimes. Drugs are a proxy in a war betwee…

> The targets are guys with long rap sheets of felony convictions, often for violent crimes.

Well, it's also about violent dancing and parking.

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/comment/2013/08/swat-t...

When SWAT raids are SOP, violent dancers and babies are going to get hurt. But at least the cops are winning.

Re: A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

#213

Post by BetterLateThan »

This will be getting worse unless people disconnect themselves from the system that allows things like this to happen.

By "disconnect" I mean secessio plebis - either physical with a move out of $this_jurisdiction, or economic, when a person minimizes their participation in the economy of $this_jurisdiction.

By continuing to use money of $this_central_bank for selling and buying goods and services in $this_jurisdiction, a person sends the following message to the legislators and enforcers:

"No matter what I say, here's my money. Let it be the token of my willingness to take more abuse. If I did not like how things work, I wouldn't be supporting your pyramid."

PS The main reward of government employess is neither money, nor vacation, nor pension, nor social perks, but immunity. It's getting away with holes in babies that makes the job attractive precisely to the people who like to make holes in others.

Re: A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

#214

Post by aestra »

jordan0day wrote: post #6

The increasing militarization of police in the USA has seemingly had a significant (and hopefully unintended) side-effect: Police tend to treat suspects (and those around them) not as law-breaking citizens , but as enemy combatants .

Saw this the other day

http://alibertarianfuture.com/big-government/police-state/th...

Re: A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

#215

Post by hyperliner »

rayiner wrote: post #147
angersock wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only we spent the money on schools and social programs instead of prisons and SWAT teams!

Atlanta spends over $15,000 per pupil per year on schools, 50% over the OECD average, and about as much as Switzerland (although, adjusted for PPP Atlanta still spends much more than Switzerland).

Spending per pupil is not necessarily the right metric. The net spending accounts for paying for teachers who can't teach, overly priced contracts to the businesses connected to school boards, corruption, etc.

It's not Switzerland, so you can't compare.

Re: A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

#216

Post by clarkmoody »

kika wrote: post #181
clarkmoody wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the mentality among the police is "I'm going home tonight, no matter what." Given the opportunity to wear body armor and carry a rifle when confronting a perceived threat, many will take it.

You're essentially saying that the only way to stop this is to use an excessive force in return.

How are you reaching that conclusion, may I ask?

Re: A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

#217

Post by jscheel »

This is what comes from the aggressive militarization of our local police forces. Tell me again why our hometown of 7,000 (at the time) felt the need to develop a full-fledged SWAT unit. It has become even worse since 9/11. Shoddy police work, an itchy trigger finger, and officers who seem to view local neighborhoods as insurgent-ridden Iraqi streets, has led to inexcusable collateral damage. The need for a responsive, well-funded police force is undeniable. But, clear leadership and strong, judicious restraint must balance that power.

Re: A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

#218

Post by hyperliner »

clarkmoody wrote: post #99
peterkelly wrote: post #20

I'm struggling to understand how any of the officers on the SWAT team - or, for that matter, those who formulated the policies to use tools like M-16s and flash grenades in drug raids - could possibly consider their actions to be less serious than someone taking or dealing in drugs.

I think the mentality among the police is "I'm going home tonight, no matter what." Given the opportunity to wear body armor and carry a rifle when confronting a perceived threat, many will take it.

I think that is the mentality they need. I rather have a dead criminal than a dead police officer. Unfortunately, mistakes will always happen, so this OP piece, while unfortunately, will continue to happen. This time it happened to be a baby, which makes matters a lot more terrible for all involved.

Re: A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

#219

Post by chc »

matwood wrote: post #206
moggflunkies wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LOOOL How about real life happens in your story: - Look outs realize there is an anomalous vehicle staged in the neighborhood & alert the team. How do you not get detected? - Drug dealers arn't home so they send a child/girlfriend to pickup the stash/cash from the home. Do you arrest and charge the 14 year old son of the dealer? - Dope boys have children/women runners do the logistical aspects. Arrest the dealer, go…

Huh? If you have evidence for a warrant on a supposedly dangerous dealer you don't need to catch them with drugs. Simply wait them out for when they leave their house and pick them up then.

Did you know that a search warrant is not the same as an arrest warrant?

Re: A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

#220

Post by ocfx »

freehunter wrote: post #169
rayiner wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just senseless ranting. 1) It's unconstitutional, as a violation of due process, to suspend officers without pay, before they have been adjudicated as having done something wrong. 2) It's probably unconstitutional to impose forfeiture of vested interests as punishment for a crime. 3) Premediated murder requires specific intent to kill. Even if the kid had died, it would most likely be negligent homicide. 4) R…

>It's unconstitutional as a violation of due process, to suspend officers without pay, before they have been adjudicated as having done something wrong. Bullshit. The police can throw me in jail before a trial, preventing me from going to work. How's that not a violation of due process? >It's probably unconstitutional to impose forfeiture of vested interests as punishment for a crime. True. You could sue them for eno…

They have to give you a bail hearing within a day or two if they determine you aren't dangerous to go back out in public they will set a bail amount and you pay it and leave. That's not really being thrown in jail, that's just being in holding.
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