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iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks

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Re: iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks

#81

Post by nitrogen »

uxp wrote: post #69
nitrogen wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- I don't see how constructing a database of cell tower locations violates privacy. They are beacons used for finding the user's location when they have location services turned on. They were storing location history : http://www.cnn.com/2011/TECH/mobile/04/20/iphone.tracking/in...

This again? They were storing location history as to more easily pinpoint the user's location without having to maintain a constant connection with a GPS satellite. They weren't storing it and sending it off to the NSA, your local police, or their own data center to mine it.

Were users warned about this before the tracking started?

Re: iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks

#82

Post by nitrogen »

glhaynes wrote: post #65
nitrogen wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- I don't see how constructing a database of cell tower locations violates privacy. They are beacons used for finding the user's location when they have location services turned on. They were storing location history : http://www.cnn.com/2011/TECH/mobile/04/20/iphone.tracking/in...

On the user's devices.

Where anybody with physical access to their phone or their computer, or access to their cloud sync data, could get at it.

Re: iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks

#83

Post by rgsteele »

Karunamon wrote: post #9
michaelmior wrote: post #5

I hope it still connects with the real MAC address. Otherwise that could get very problematic.

Why is that? The only good use that comes to mind is MAC filtering, and that's easily defeated anyways.

If you connected to a hotspot using a captive portal, you would need to sign in every time you disconnected and re-connected from the access point.

Re: iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks

#84

Post by nitrogen »

jmgrosen wrote: post #73
nitrogen wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it not possible to track devices based on their Bluetooth MAC?

If you have discoverable mode on, sure. But typically that's specifically user-activated and only lasts for a couple of minutes.

I'm working at a place that uses a simple app running on a Raspberry Pi to update a dashboard whenever a known Bluetooth MAC comes into the building, with no need to turn on discoverability or pair with the Pi.

Re: iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks

#85

Post by dag11 »

eli wrote: post #80
brunnsbe wrote: post #6

If this becomes the trend (which in my opinon would be nice) it will become a big problem for companies that specialise in customer tracking e.g. for supermarkets and big department stores. Previously it was quite easy to track a customer, how long he or she spends time in the store, which floors he or she visits, etc. by putting up dummy WiFI-networks that the customers phones find by giving out their MAC-addresses.

Are retail stores actually using cell phones to track people at the individual level? I mean, I know the technology exists and all, but it just doesn't seem like it'd actually be all that useful to the stores. My guess is that the stores that are using this tech are mostly concerned about how long the average person has to wait in the checkout line, not whether Joe Blow is was in the store.

Large stores use it to positionally track unique customers. They can analyze the paths they take and ultimately what they buy. This is powerful because the can optimize the layout of their stores to maximize sales based on hard data.

This will now become much more difficult to do.

Re: iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks

#86

Post by praseodym »

mikeash wrote: post #54
praseodym wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The MAC address is stable once a device is authenticated (connected) to the network. With the trend of providing 'free' wifi access within stores, making sure that users connect to that network is enough to continue tracking them.

How will you make sure of that, though? Only a tiny fraction of smartphone users will bother to connect to your wifi, and it'll be a skewed sample.

By making sure your steel-reinforced concrete mall walls are thick enough to block proper 3G/4G reception (no, really, reception is pretty bad in a lot of indoor places).

But still, I agree, it would be very hard to have everyone connect to your wifi.

Re: iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks

#87

Post by x0x0 »

shurcooL wrote: post #22
LoganCale wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good. It should be a problem for them.

I'm genuinely curious, how does it being a problem for them benefit you? (I'm assuming you're not saying that out of indifferent malice but because you have personal gains, which is normal.) Can you please elaborate on your point?

it's a simple test: if data companies collect where clearly explained to the user, would the user approve or not?

"By entering this store, we will permanently record your location every 60 seconds. The main purpose of said data collection is attempting to stitch your actions on the internet to store visits to more effectively sell advertising. Further, we will sell this data to many companies, most of whom we don't directly interact with. Our privacy 'policy' will most likely never be audited, and the worst possible outcome of violations is a fine in the low millions of dollars. We will hand this information over to police and lawyers if they clear the high bar of, well, asking for it. The nsa doesn't bother asking."

What do you think people would choose?

Re: iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks

#88

Post by c1sc0 »

IBM wrote: post #37

It's pretty clear that Apple is positioning themselves in stark contrast to Google, they want to be the privacy/security company. Internet companies with advertising business models are a dime a dozen so that is a real advantage that differentiates Apple.

This. If you have access to the developer sessions from WWDC14 I urge you to look at the HealthKit, CloudKit & TouchID stuff. "We take privacy very seriously" was a recurring theme and seeing it baked into the new APIs made me smile. Very cool & reassuring move.

Re: iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks

#89

Post by feld »

nitrogen wrote: post #81
uxp wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This again? They were storing location history as to more easily pinpoint the user's location without having to maintain a constant connection with a GPS satellite. They weren't storing it and sending it off to the NSA, your local police, or their own data center to mine it.

Were users warned about this before the tracking started?

It's NOT tracking. It was only ever stored locally on that device. That's called logging.

Re: iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks

#90

Post by feld »

nitrogen wrote: post #82
glhaynes wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the user's devices.

Where anybody with physical access to their phone or their computer, or access to their cloud sync data, could get at it.

Do you have proof that it was synced to iCloud? I don't believe it ever was.
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