161–170 of 335 posts
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If you don't do the things that people are writing about, then they aren't talking about you. You should read http://bitchtopia.com/2013/07/11/not-all-men-are-like-that/ .
s/men/any other group/g s/oppressing/any other negative behavior/g "Having to point out that not every black steals allows for robbery to continue because having to say “some blacks are thieves” gives blacks peace of mind. "
this is one of the more thoughtful pieces i've read on the issue. it's obvious to anyone really paying attention the tech industry (and probably most other industries) has been extremely unfair to women. writing like this--clear on the problem and supportive of people who want to help--is important, but it's also important to remember that we all collectively have to act to actually change things.
"this is one of the more thoughtful pieces i've read on the issue" is bull shit. I'm male and even I can figure this out. Do you see what you're doing here? Do you even realize? Your comment reads: "THESE women are actually thoughtful, not like those bra-burning man-hating diatribes that I've come across from those crazy women in tech. If only all women were this calm and docile when talking about this subject." Mayb…
i didn't say anything about "if only all women were this calm and docile when talking about this subject"--that's all you. all i said was that this was particularly good.
I am going to convey my experience of reading this, in the hopes that it might be helpful. The message that I get from this essay is as follows. "We are angry with the way we are treated as women, by men. We are angry with the way we see other women being treated by men. Even though you might not personally have treated us like this, we know that you are a man, like other men, and we hold you responsible for what has…
So just so I get this right: When they say "Encourage diversity in the workplace" do they mean "all things being equal, hire the women", or do they mean "all things being not immensely unequal, hire the women"?
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I feel uncomfortable that you have implicitly associated the parent article and its goals with extremism and hatred, which I don't observe.
I've seen those kinds of more extreme articles (and writers) on modelviewculture before, so I think it's fair to judge a publication by what it publishes. And some of these talking points were adopted by ultra-feminists.
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Anil - I'd have expected a bit less snarky of tone from someone so public, but I'll try and answer you anyway: Yes, I asked other males what they've seen. You can't change reality. Our industry is about as male as the army. I could probably have counted the females in my computer science program back in college on one hand. I'm just wondering if it really all is as behind closed doors/hidden as is implied, or perhaps…
Why should he be less snarky? After all, the tech industry supposedly loves straight-talking engineers like Linus Torvalds who don't beat around the bush and tell people bluntly why they're wrong - so much so that we even let them get away with gratuitous personal insults and misguided arguments.
I am a white male in my early 30s. I'm strongly libertarian and do everything in my power to make sure that people have the opportunity to work in a safe and non-threatening environment. I go out of my way to make sure that people who do not share my "type A" personality are included in group activities, and spend a good deal of energy monitoring and adjusting my body language to be inviting without being aggressive. This in particular doesn't come naturally to me, and as an introvert, is quite exhausting.
The one time I attempted to work with the the social circle that authors and maintains Model-View-Culture, I was met with the single most obvious and aggressive display of sexism I've encountered in my professional career. They used gender-based names to refer to me in a very derogatory and degrading way, and proceeded to go through my social profiles and mock my private life and family - because I had the audacity to attempt to engage them in a conversation while being male.
> Does this mean we’re going to get angry at you if you try to help and get it wrong? > This is an a fear that has come to light through side channels. Men know there is a problem, and they’re worried the women they know are on the defensive - especially when reading a direct call to action like this one.
> They want to help but they’re worried if they don’t get everything just right, someone will chastise them into oblivion.
No, I'm not worried that I'll be chastised - I'm worried that my gender will result in a situation where any action (or inaction) on my part will result in my being ostracized from the professional community to which I've devoted a large part of my adult life. Further, I base this fear on my own actual experience and the direct observation of the experiences of others.
> The people signing this document are patient when they see someone trying to make a difference.
Perhaps. To be fair, the people who lashed out at me are not listed on this document. They are members of the same social circle though, and the thought of putting my career and my family's livelihood on the line to try and solve problems that do not directly impact me is terrifying. I am supposed to trust them not to dox me, spread that information to their entire social circle, then use it to publicly shame me?
http://modelviewculture.com/pieces/investigation-online-gath...
I want to help. I really do. I have a wife, daughters, and my own mother is a long-time feminist. I consider myself a feminist, though not of the radical far-left variety they practice. As much as I've been preached to about how feminism is hostile because they are not in a position of power, they've wielded that power arbitrarily and willfully when they found themselves able to do so.
The only way to win this game is not to play.
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Ahh, so all of those racist Aryan Nation members are just parodies, since the marketing slogan of the Aryan Nation claims their ideology to be one of "love and pride".
I call Godwin's law on your "feminism=nazism" false eqivalence
We should judge ideologies by their rhetoric, actions, and outcomes, not their marketing slogans.
I just want to develop software, and I don't personally give a shit about the gender of the people I'm working with. ...Until they start shoving these sorts of issues down my throat. If I get to choose between the male that just wants to develop software and the female who wants to tell me all about how terrible it is working in our industry as a woman, I'm going to pick the male. Why? Because I'm very goal oriented…
Until they start shoving these sorts of issues down my throat
I'm willing to bet that nobody has ever done anything like shoving anything down your throat, and that sort of repulsive hyperbole is just a marker for irrational, reactionary flame-bait.
Incidentally, if you believe that writing a blog post is "shoving these sorts of issues down your throat", then you should take a serious dose of your own medicine.
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> I just want to develop software So do they.
Many of them do. The ones going on crusades do not, they are the ones I'm specifically referring to.
It makes me sad to read this stuff, but a genuine question for other male readers. Have you heard of, or come into contact with any of this abhorrent behavior that's mentioned? I have never seen it anywhere I worked, or heard of that sort of thing through word of mouth, but obviously that's a terrible sample set. My experiences related to women in tech: * Everywhere I've worked, it's been a boys club, but we'd LOVE t…
> Have you heard of, or come into contact with any of this abhorrent behavior that's mentioned? Yes. White, privileged male. I was attending Pycon 2013 in Santa, Clara. I had just spent the lunch hour with a good friend and his acquaintance, X. As we were leaving X decided it was an appropriate time to quietly share his views about women in tech with me. I was mortified at that moment and promptly exited the conversa…