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An open letter on feminism in tech

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Re: An open letter on feminism in tech

#151

Post by bucketsbuckets »

jdp23 wrote: post #58
optimusclimb wrote: post #3

It makes me sad to read this stuff, but a genuine question for other male readers. Have you heard of, or come into contact with any of this abhorrent behavior that's mentioned? I have never seen it anywhere I worked, or heard of that sort of thing through word of mouth, but obviously that's a terrible sample set. My experiences related to women in tech: * Everywhere I've worked, it's been a boys club, but we'd LOVE t…

Yes, as a male, I see this behavior regularly. If you're not seeing it, it's statistically highly unlikely that you're not coming into contact with it. Reading and understanding feminist perspectives can help you become more observant. Hacker News provides plenty of opportunities for practice identifying hostile-to-women comments. If you're not hearing about it through word of mouth, then it could be that you don't t…

> If you're not seeing it, it's statistically highly unlikely that you're not coming into contact with it.

May I ask on what evidence you base this assertion? Note that this is a much stronger claim than just "harassment happens"; you're claiming that, more likely than not, it is also happening in my organization.

Re: An open letter on feminism in tech

#152

Post by arzugula »

paulv wrote: post #92
mycroft-holmes wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We are going to respond my making generailized hate speech towards all men in the industry. This is a large part of my problem with some of the MVC writers. If you're a male, you're guilty. If you're white and male, you're really guilty.

If you don't do the things that people are writing about, then they aren't talking about you. You should read http://bitchtopia.com/2013/07/11/not-all-men-are-like-that/ .

s/men/any other group/g

s/oppressing/any other negative behavior/g

"Having to point out that not every black steals allows for robbery to continue because having to say “some blacks are thieves” gives blacks peace of mind. "

Re: An open letter on feminism in tech

#153

Post by epeus »

arzugula wrote: post #131
ska wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"So what do we call the feminists who ..." A parody. That one's easy.

Ahh, so all of those racist Aryan Nation members are just parodies, since the marketing slogan of the Aryan Nation claims their ideology to be one of "love and pride".

I call Godwin's law on your "feminism=nazism" false eqivalence

Re: An open letter on feminism in tech

#154

Post by beat »

optimusclimb wrote: post #97
optimusclimb wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the links. A question - Do you think (or have any information) on if this is particularly worse in tech, than in other industries?

@danilocampos - I think it matters for getting to a solution. If there's something inherent in tech, or its male work force that makes the problem worse, then knowing that might help get at the root of the problem a little faster.

We already understand the roots of the problem quite well... comparing to other industries won't make much difference.

1. Male-dominated environment, women are a significant minority.

2. Inexcusable tolerance of sexist behavior - not calling it out when we see it.

3. "Why are you blaming me? I'm not one of those guys. Men might listen to you if you'd just stop the blanket accusations." (extra credit: count how many comments on this thread can be reduced to that sentiment.)

Re: An open letter on feminism in tech

#155

Post by steveklabnik »

zo1 wrote: post #115
steveklabnik wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The partner that was attacked was a girlfriend. Not a company partner at all. Many people have switched to saying 'partner' for all relationships to help demonstrate their support for gay marriage. > Everyone wanted to see proof. He already pled guilty. > Why is this particular instance difficult for women in tech? Well, it's an example of someone's incredibly personal abuse story possibly being shown to millions o…

"He already pled guilty." Looks like someone didn't bother to click through to the meaty articles about that point. The police dropped all charges against him, and he plead to a misdemeanor with a fine. Imagine this... You find out your partner of who knows how long, has been having unprotected sex for money for (I think the article said years). I say she deserves a beating if that was true. In my book, she's throwin…

> I say she deserves a beating if that was true.

Just want to emphasize that sentence there.

Re: An open letter on feminism in tech

#156

Post by sarajo »

mreiland wrote: post #117
sarajo wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I deleted as it wasn't a useful conversation either way.

I'm genuinely curious as to why you asked the question to begin with.

I'm one of the posters of this article, it was infuriating to me to have my experiences discounted.

Re: An open letter on feminism in tech

#157

Post by juridatenshi »

arzugula wrote: post #43

> Feminism is the radical notion that women are people, and that we want to be treated as equals. Don’t let someone else pretend otherwise out of their own misguided notions. So what do we call the feminists who work to suppress research that shows gender symmetry in domestic violence? What do we call the feminists who demonize men as rapists, deadbeats, child molesters, and abusers? What do we call the feminists who…

I see you've found the strawfeminists. http://www.harkavagrant.com/?id=341

HSSSSSSSSSS!

Re: An open letter on feminism in tech

#158

Post by pgeorgi »

kevingadd wrote: post #35
vezzy-fnord wrote: post #24

One thing that no one seems to address in these discussions (of which at least one appears every week) is how will feminism actually solve these problems? Actually, I'd like to address this paragraph: Feminism is not a dirty word. Feminism is the radical notion that women are people, and that we want to be treated as equals. Don’t let someone else pretend otherwise out of their own misguided notions. The author(s) re…

Do you have a better solution to propose, then?

I'd propose to be more careful when throwing "feminism" in the ring - it really is an umbrella term, and it makes it so much harder to discuss things because so much time is wasted looking for where the goal posts reside today.

One potential downside is that deconstructing the umbrella also removes that feeling of speaking for a huge majority. I'd consider that a feature because it's a misleading notion.

Re: An open letter on feminism in tech

#159

Post by jdp23 »

optimusclimb wrote: post #84
jdp23 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, as a male, I see this behavior regularly. If you're not seeing it, it's statistically highly unlikely that you're not coming into contact with it. Reading and understanding feminist perspectives can help you become more observant. Hacker News provides plenty of opportunities for practice identifying hostile-to-women comments. If you're not hearing about it through word of mouth, then it could be that you don't t…

If, in posting something out of concern, and in trying to understand something better, I still am going to get chastised for "doing it wrong", then it really is an uphill battle.

It is an uphill battle to become aware of the blinders and unconscious habits we all have. I was making suggestions (not chastising) assuming that you really are trying to understand, and are willing to make the effort even if it's challenging.

Re: An open letter on feminism in tech

#160

Post by MyGod »

mreiland wrote: post #61

I just want to develop software, and I don't personally give a shit about the gender of the people I'm working with. ...Until they start shoving these sorts of issues down my throat. If I get to choose between the male that just wants to develop software and the female who wants to tell me all about how terrible it is working in our industry as a woman, I'm going to pick the male. Why? Because I'm very goal oriented…

This. It seems feminist indoctrinated HN still has few people with brain here. I hope you don't mind me making screengrab of your post and using it instead of writing my own (with all credit to you of course).
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