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An open letter on feminism in tech

modelviewculture.com

31–40 of 335 posts

Re: An open letter on feminism in tech

#31
post #21

It makes me sad to read this stuff, but a genuine question for other male readers. Have you heard of, or come into contact with any of this abhorrent behavior that's mentioned? I have never seen it anywhere I worked, or heard of that sort of thing through word of mouth, but obviously that's a terrible sample set. My experiences related to women in tech: * Everywhere I've worked, it's been a boys club, but we'd LOVE t…

I have seen it once, in one of my employees. I fired him. I still don't like the ultra-feminist movement though. Hate doesn't achieve much good.

I feel uncomfortable that you have implicitly associated the parent article and its goals with extremism and hatred, which I don't observe.

Re: An open letter on feminism in tech

#32

It makes me sad to read this stuff, but a genuine question for other male readers. Have you heard of, or come into contact with any of this abhorrent behavior that's mentioned? I have never seen it anywhere I worked, or heard of that sort of thing through word of mouth, but obviously that's a terrible sample set. My experiences related to women in tech: * Everywhere I've worked, it's been a boys club, but we'd LOVE t…

It makes me sad to read this stuff, but a genuine question for other male readers. Have you heard of, or come into contact with any of this abhorrent behavior that's mentioned?

I've been out of college for about 6 years now. The worst I even encountered professionally was a joke shared in a group of 3 or 4 dudes about women drivers. I remember it well because it was so incongruous with everything else I've seen. There was also a booth babe at a conference I went to, and everyone I spoke with (including staff) considered it at the very least tacky. There were blog posts about harassment at that conference, but I never witnessed any nor did anyone in my group of friends, acquaintances and colleagues attending ever speak of being uncomfortable there.

I hear about more harassment towards the women I'm friends with after any given night of drinking at bars than the total I've ever heard from them about work.

Re: An open letter on feminism in tech

#33
"Some men made statements that made us feel unwelcome in the tech industry"

We are going to respond my making generailized hate speech towards all men in the industry.

But seriously, are people expecting 100% support from all sections of society? Is that even a realistic expectation?

Re: An open letter on feminism in tech

#34
this is one of the more thoughtful pieces i've read on the issue.

it's obvious to anyone really paying attention the tech industry (and probably most other industries) has been extremely unfair to women. writing like this--clear on the problem and supportive of people who want to help--is important, but it's also important to remember that we all collectively have to act to actually change things.

Re: An open letter on feminism in tech

#35

One thing that no one seems to address in these discussions (of which at least one appears every week) is how will feminism actually solve these problems? Actually, I'd like to address this paragraph: Feminism is not a dirty word. Feminism is the radical notion that women are people, and that we want to be treated as equals. Don’t let someone else pretend otherwise out of their own misguided notions. The author(s) re…

Do you have a better solution to propose, then?

Re: An open letter on feminism in tech

#36

It makes me sad to read this stuff, but a genuine question for other male readers. Have you heard of, or come into contact with any of this abhorrent behavior that's mentioned? I have never seen it anywhere I worked, or heard of that sort of thing through word of mouth, but obviously that's a terrible sample set. My experiences related to women in tech: * Everywhere I've worked, it's been a boys club, but we'd LOVE t…

You read the story of a range of women from across the industry, said you haven't had the experience these women have had, and then explicitly asked men for their opinions. See if you can figure out the bug here. * "We have this problem with our iOS app." * "I use Android and have never seen this. Any other Android users encounter this?"

I came here to say something similar: that the same action or speech can/will be interpreted very differently based on a whole slew of factors, including gender, ethnicity, or just plainly being different people to begin with. What appears "okay" or "benign" or "in jest" can certainly not be the case for a colleague, whichever gender they may be [1].

In fact, I'd argue that it's hard to perceive the inappropriateness of our own actions in the moment. It's much easier to notice the possible auxiliary effects of our past actions when reflecting on them at a later time. Frankly, I can think of any number of things that I've said or done in the recent past that may have made my female friends and colleagues twitch an eyebrow, but didn't elicit an explicit response because they've learned to just deal with it and let it go, having been in a boys club for so long (one started her career in investment banking). And I'd consider myself to be fairly self-aware of these issues, and yet I've admittedly failed many times over.

edit: and frankly, how many of us voluntarily and regularly look back at our past week/month to think about the ways in which we've failed ourselves and our own principles in this area? We may review the ways in which we failed in our job capacity and reflect on how we can improve, but I think the frequency with which we do the same for our social interactions is much lower.

[1] In fact, I think "I was just kidding" is one of the lamest excuses for actions that at times clearly are not thus.

Re: An open letter on feminism in tech

#37

It makes me sad to read this stuff, but a genuine question for other male readers. Have you heard of, or come into contact with any of this abhorrent behavior that's mentioned? I have never seen it anywhere I worked, or heard of that sort of thing through word of mouth, but obviously that's a terrible sample set. My experiences related to women in tech: * Everywhere I've worked, it's been a boys club, but we'd LOVE t…

You read the story of a range of women from across the industry, said you haven't had the experience these women have had, and then explicitly asked men for their opinions. See if you can figure out the bug here. * "We have this problem with our iOS app." * "I use Android and have never seen this. Any other Android users encounter this?"

[deleted]

Re: An open letter on feminism in tech

#39
post #19

Just a side note this site is run by a person who thinks "This is NOT unrelated to the fact that YCombinator built Hacker News, a platform that has consistently terrorized women in tech for years." https://twitter.com/shanley/status/460566412226883584

I've downvoted you, because I don't feel that your comment is particularly germane to the submission itself. (And I've seen enough minority/feminism-related discussions on HN to overwhelmingly agree that the community here is often incredibly hostile to women.)

Terrorized though? I'm not sure that being critical of some blog posts rises to that level.

Re: An open letter on feminism in tech

#40
post #5

FTA: > The last few weeks have been very difficult for women in tech: > Gurbaksh Chahal - then-CEO of a startup, was allegedly video taped violently attacking a former partner 117 times in 30 mins (He was finally fired some time after this was made public) My reaction when I first read this: "wow, the guy beat up his company partner AND a woman, at that. What an asshole." Then I clicked through (note: he's still an a…

> The partner that was attacked was a girlfriend. Not a company partner at all. Many people have switched to saying 'partner' for all relationships to help demonstrate their support for gay marriage. > Everyone wanted to see proof. He already pled guilty. > Why is this particular instance difficult for women in tech? Well, it's an example of someone's incredibly personal abuse story possibly being shown to millions o…

> Also, he was the CEO of a tech startup, and the tech startup media did all the reporting on it, and all his investors literally said 'congratulations, I'm glad this is behind you' after he pled guilty.

Thank you for spelling it out for me. This bit with the inevstors apparently condoning the behaviour is what I was missing.

So what do you think should happen? The man pleaded guilty and paid his due, presumably.

Should his career be forever destroyed?

I'm curious.

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