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London black taxis plan congestion chaos to block Uber

bbc.co.uk

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Re: London black taxis plan congestion chaos to block Uber

#111

Post by danielweber »

cjrp wrote: post #36
gadders wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ha. I'd be interested to see anyone manage that. On top of this, in central London it's pretty built up so SatNav doesn't always work in the canyons between buildings.

Plus a SatNav won't know that at rush hour, a longer (distance-wise) route could be quicker in a black cab due to them being allowed to use bus lanes.

I don't want to say "that should be easy to do," but I'd be shell-shocked if any company with experience doing navigation systems couldn't figure this out without too much trouble.

Also, even if GPS signals are hard to get in London, navigation in a fixed city can be calculated in lots of different ways. Allowing for some regulatory limits, a company (or an experienced third-party) could scatter their own transmitters around the city as needed, figuring out which frequencies give the best accuracy.

Re: London black taxis plan congestion chaos to block Uber

#112

Post by barnabee »

corin_ wrote: post #4
nakedrobot2 wrote: post #2

What a deplorable, luddite attitude. The black taxis should be banned for some period of time for this behavior. "The Licensed Taxi Drivers Association complains that Uber's drivers are using a smartphone app to calculate fares despite it being illegal for private vehicles to be fitted with taximeters." So using this website in your car is illegal?! http://www.worldtaximeter.com/

If that law is correct then it seems they have a perfectly valid complaint, using an app on your phone instead of a dedicated device is just circumventing the spirit of the law. Whether the law should still exist, and whether this method of protest is appropriate, are other questions of course.

Transport For London (the governing body) have set it is not illegal as the law only covers meters that are mechanically attached to the car not an app that uses information about location/time/distance.

So they're complaining that they'd like the law to be different so that Uber could be temporarily banned until they code a workaround. Pointless.

Re: London black taxis plan congestion chaos to block Uber

#113

Post by barnabee »

rmc wrote: post #42
fennecfoxen wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, causing gridlock and disrupting the commute is not the best way to make friends and influence people. Unless you have a really clear moral outrage, people will get pretty upset at you as well as those you have a problem with. (If it were otherwise the transit unions would have a much easier time of things.) "illegal to install taximeters" isn't going to resonate with the public, I think. It's hardly the abuse a…

"This taxi driver could be a criminal and/or scam you in the fare" might resonate with people. It might also tap into latent racism about immigrants driving around with the same level of licencing.

Uber drivers still have to be licensed minicab drivers in London, there's just a difference between that and metered black cabs.

Re: London black taxis plan congestion chaos to block Uber

#114

Post by sp332 »

MRSallee wrote: post #75
JetSpiegel wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to travel a mile, you can just walk.

Rains a lot in London.

It rains less now that the gulf stream is shifting. It's going to get a lot colder, though.

Edit: well according to http://www.bbc.co.uk/climate/impact/gulf_stream.shtml "This slowing will have a cooling effect but the temperature will still increase in the region overall" due to the global warming effect.

Re: London black taxis plan congestion chaos to block Uber

#115

Post by barrkel »

prof_hobart wrote: post #84
jgrahamc wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the key benefits of The Knowledge is that I can jump in a black cab in London and say "Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons" and have a driver who can instantly decide which way to go... 1. Without asking for any clarification 2. Without typing a bunch of stuff into a GPS device 3. And with knowledge of time/space specific optimizations Yes, black cabs are not cheap. You are getting a very specific service for…

What if you don't want to pay for that specific service? I got a taxi home (not in London) last week and the taxi driver used his sat nav to route me home. It didn't bother me in the slightest. Pretty much all I ask for in a taxi is get me from where I am to where I want to go, as quickly, cheaply and safely as possible. I'm not against people being licenced (that comes into the "safely" bit of my requirements), but…

London doesn't have a grid structure. When there's a closure or delay on one route, it's not as simple as choosing the next road over. GPSes vary in their quality for routing diversions, but in a maze of one-way streets, turning restrictions and temporary / permanent rerouting in effect, a human is always going to be better. GPS maps are often out of date as London is constantly changing with rat-runs being closed down and new railway lines being built.

Re: London black taxis plan congestion chaos to block Uber

#116

Post by paganel »

buro9 wrote: post #57
casca wrote: post #22

The Black Cabs in London have a long-standing monopoly on picking people up on the street and providing a metered journey. This is mandated by law. To become a black cab (not always black in colour) driver, it is necessary to take an advanced test called The Knowledge where you are expected to know every London street and landmark along with best routes based on random street closures. It takes about 3 years to study…

> Any advances that Uber makes will benefit all mini-cab companies and most importantly, passengers. Except for all of the disabled ones, the wheelchair users, the ones who only wish to travel a very short distance and are unable to do so alone (the pregnant, mothers with pushchairs, the extremely inebriated, elderly, injured, etc). The monopoly and some privileges (bus lane access, pick up fares anywhere) is granted…

> Except for all of the disabled ones, the wheelchair users, the ones who only wish to travel a very short distance and are unable to do so alone (the pregnant, mothers with pushchairs, the extremely inebriated, elderly, injured, etc).

I live in an Eastern-European capital city where cab-fares are more or less completely deregulated. If what you describe were to happen after you'd just ordered a taxi (either from the street, through a phone-call or through a smart-phone app), then all you have to do is for you to call back the taxi-driver's parent company and he will get at least a 2-hour suspension, meaning that he won't be able to pick any phone or tablet orders. If a second, similar complaint arrives about the same driver in a short period of time then his contract is terminated and he's free to go and work for another company.

And yes, it does happen from time to time for me to try a pick a taxi on the street corner and receive an evasive answer, and I'm usually too lazy to call and complain, but the beauty of a free-market is that in all such cases I was able to find a taxi-driver willing to take my money from the same street corner.

Re: London black taxis plan congestion chaos to block Uber

#117

Post by lilt12345 »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #86
jgrahamc wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the key benefits of The Knowledge is that I can jump in a black cab in London and say "Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons" and have a driver who can instantly decide which way to go... 1. Without asking for any clarification 2. Without typing a bunch of stuff into a GPS device 3. And with knowledge of time/space specific optimizations Yes, black cabs are not cheap. You are getting a very specific service for…

>You are getting a very specific service So are you in favor of that very specific service being a monopoly or not?

There's no monopoly, there's merely a minimum standard defined by law. You're free to complete The Knowledge to become a cabbie, or a medical degree to become a doctor.

Re: London black taxis plan congestion chaos to block Uber

#118

Post by snitko »

nodata wrote: post #87
snitko wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where I live anyone can be a cab. You raise your hand on any street any time of day and some car will stop. As a result, prices are normally 3 times lower compared to the US. You negotiate the price with drivers beforehand and you don't have to tip them because all of the money go directly into the driver's pocket. I've never heard anyone complain about this system. Now tell me how is this a bad idea?

Your argument is that cheapest must be best? Try safety of the passenger, upkeep of the vehicle, all the other reasons mentioned elsewhere on this page...

My argument is that market should decide. If some people want cheap and unsafe, let them have it. If some people want expensive and licenced - let them have it too. In Europe and the US you currently have a situation where those who want a cheaper ride essentially subsidize those who value safety more. That is in no way fair.

Re: London black taxis plan congestion chaos to block Uber

#119

Post by rmc »

M2Ys4U wrote: post #85
rmc wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're probably talking about the Google not having it's corporate offices in the UK. The UK is a massive tax haven anyway, with weird little sub-national groups like the Channel Islands and Isle of Mann. edit : Yes I'm aware the Channel Islands & Isle of Mann aren't part of the UK, but they are 'British' and massive tax havens, sometimes with one company director per inhabitant.

The Channel Islands and the Isle of Mann are Crown Dependencies[0] and aren't part of the United Kingdom, nor are they part of the European Union (although their citizens are also British citizens and they are part of the EU customs area) [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_dependencies

Would "British Tax Haven" be a more accurate discription?

Re: London black taxis plan congestion chaos to block Uber

#120

Post by rmc »

barnabee wrote: post #113
rmc wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"This taxi driver could be a criminal and/or scam you in the fare" might resonate with people. It might also tap into latent racism about immigrants driving around with the same level of licencing.

Uber drivers still have to be licensed minicab drivers in London, there's just a difference between that and metered black cabs.

I never said the entranced threatened industry would tell the truth. :P
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