It's Different for Girls • Hacker News Board

Re: It's Different for Girls

#341

Post by wpietri » Sat, May 03, 2014, 6:33 AM UTC

vii wrote: post #279

Articles like this just reinforce stereotypes (women as victims) without recognising the reality that men can also be victims (of male or female abusers). This makes it even harder for men who are victimized to come forward. There are plenty of studies which show that men are very unlikely to report sexual assault -- for example, recently http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2014/04/male_... Sexual harassme…

"What about the men!" is a deeply disappointing response here.

Yes, men can also be victims. And it's also important to fix that. But you can make that point without instantly demanding equal air time or suggesting that a woman telling stories about her life is placing an enormous burden on you.

Re: It's Different for Girls

#342

Post by wpietri » Sat, May 03, 2014, 6:35 AM UTC

robobro wrote: post #300

How exactly is this "news"? What does it have to do with "hacking"?

Yes, there's no possible way a VC talking about making deals and raising investment could possibly be related to a site about startups.

/me rolls his eyes.

Re: It's Different for Girls

#343

Post by wpietri » Sat, May 03, 2014, 6:39 AM UTC

javert wrote: post #311

If you compare an "ideal" man with an "ideal" woman, being a woman is, arguably, a disadvantage. But the vast majority of real men and women are not "ideal." For instance, what if you are a black man? What if you are short? What if you don't have the right "swagger"? What if you visit the VC when he happens to be having a bad day? What if you have a different accent? This is why feminism is ridiculously unfair to all…

I have heard a lot of ridiculous arguments about feminism, but this one at least has the virtue of being novel.

It's still not very interesting, though. If you were to read as much as a book on feminism, you'd know that there are reasonable answers to these questions.

Re: It's Different for Girls

#344

Post by wpietri » Sat, May 03, 2014, 6:44 AM UTC

mkempe wrote: post #272

mkempe wrote: post #174

Walking away silently is not the appropriate response. Tolerating a colleague's obscene language isn't either. In both cases, the outcome is that the perpetrator is going to repeat the same offensive behaviour. People who are offensive should be shunned and told why they are shunned. If they are borderline criminal, others should be told about them. If they are criminal, government should be involved. Being afraid of…

To those who downvoted my comment without argument: what I said is outrageous? unacceptable? men who physically assault women or treat them as purely sexual objects should be tolerated? am I missing something?

It's certainly not very thoughtful or empathetic.

It's easy for you to say what other people should do. But if somebody has been harassed or sexually assaulted, reporting it or suing has to be up to them. There are enormous personal consequences to doing so. Blaming people who decide not to do that is putting an additional unfair burden on somebody who has already been victimized.

Re: It's Different for Girls

#345

Post by mercurial » Sat, May 03, 2014, 6:45 AM UTC

mafribe wrote: post #283

enraged_camel wrote: post #117

I have an ex-coworker who is a really attractive girl, and she used to tell me lots of stories like this about places she had worked at previously. Vice presidents calling her to their room and offering her promotions if only she would give them weekly blowjobs, prospective customers turning away from million-dollar deals at the last minute after she refused to sleep with them, etc. The really sad thing about is that…

Are you in all seriousness saying that attractive women have it hard? You are suffering form a massive case of what modern social though terms "privilege blindness". (And, as an aside, probably have the hots for that girl als well.) Nobody on this plane is more privileged than attractive girls. They don't even have to work if they don't want to. In your delusion, you also conveniently ignore that (within certain limi…

Well, today, Paul, I'd like some of this "terrible reading comprehension" you have so prominently on the menu (I mean, reading both an article and a testimony about actual discrimination, and then saying it's a "lifestyle choice", it's either that or something so much beyond bad faith, it's positively Luciferan). Additionally, I'd like a healthy serving of victim blaming, because I too subscribe to the idea that any abuse suffered by attractive females is completely their fault, why should they be attractive in the first place?

(edit: obviously sarcastic)

Re: It's Different for Girls

#346

Post by ShardPhoenix » Sat, May 03, 2014, 7:03 AM UTC

kaitai wrote: post #305

ShardPhoenix wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's obviously a reasonable question and the fact that it's illegal to ask is outrageous.

There was a bunch of discussion of good intentions above. You're one of those people who may or may not have good intentions, but as a woman who might someday have a kid, you make me angry. People like you make me REALLY angry. It's reasonable to doubt my interest in my own f(&ing company, it's reasonable to think I'll suddenly get stupid for hormonal reasons and won't be able to deal with business, it's reasonable..…

>People like you make me REALLY angry.

Same to you buddy. Guess we'll have to fight it out in the political arena like anything else people can't agree on.

PS I didn't even say the things I believe that would really make you angry, like "pregnant women and women with young children probably shouldn't be working at all, and definitely not running a startup".

PPS That's a hell of a lot of wild assumptions about what "people like me" believe" off of one sentence.

Re: It's Different for Girls

#347

Post by ShardPhoenix » Sat, May 03, 2014, 7:04 AM UTC

wpietri wrote: post #339

ShardPhoenix wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's obviously a reasonable question and the fact that it's illegal to ask is outrageous.

When we raised money, nobody asked my male cofounder if he was going to be distracted by his young children. Why? Because they knew it would make them look like assholes. That they don't treat women the same way is a hint.

They should have asked.

Re: It's Different for Girls

#348

Post by ShardPhoenix » Sat, May 03, 2014, 7:33 AM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #306

ShardPhoenix wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's obviously a reasonable question and the fact that it's illegal to ask is outrageous.

I just explained why it wasn't. You didn't even acknowledge my comment, let alone rebut it.

You explained why it's illegal, but I don't agree with the reasoning. I don't believe the government should be interfering in this kind of thing at all to begin with, but this is a particularly stupid example where something that is clearly highly relevant is somehow off limits due to political correctness.

Re: It's Different for Girls

#349

Post by rando289 » Sat, May 03, 2014, 7:36 AM UTC

nancye wrote: post #245

rando289 wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Every time I see the word ‘Girl’ used in scenarios that are supposed to empower women, it really grates on me,” http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2013/01/30/girls-lad... It bothers me too. The article is otherwise great. google, define: girl "1. a female child. 2. a young or relatively young woman." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girl : "A girl is any female human from birth through childhood and adolescence to…

The use of 'girl' to refer to women often bothers me as well, but in this case, it's a reference to a song title: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It's_Different_for_Girls

There's nothing about that in the post, and I don't think it's relevant. There are many song titles which have a negative connotation towards women (especially in rap). I couldn't name a blog post the same as one of them, then later say, "I understand how you could see this as a bad thing, but I was just thinking of some song title you've never heard of." It doesn't work that way.

And, she does call herself a girl once more, not just in the title. Perhaps someone said that sentence in a movie, so it will somehow not mean what it says either.

And even if it is an unspoken reference, that doesn't explain how the title should be interpreted differently. It's a pop song, and according to wikipedia the lyrics aren't especially relevant to the contents of her post.

Re: It's Different for Girls

#350

Post by Ransom_ » Sat, May 03, 2014, 8:06 AM UTC

When thinking about my female friends, it is hard to believe that this is the type of crap that they will most likely, scratch that, will experience. I can keep my actions in check, call people out on theirs, but it just doesn't seem like it's enough.