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It's Different for Girls

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Re: It's Different for Girls

#111

Post by Dewie »

aasarava wrote: post #30

She makes a really good point about pausing to evaluate the intent behind the words -- and even using the opportunity to educate -- rather than always assuming the worst. But did anyone else feel that Brad Feld was very, very lucky that it was Heidi Roizen in the room and not someone less forgiving when he said, "well if you need a dick to hold you can borrow mine anytime"? What Brad did in that one comment was under…

> But did anyone else feel that Brad Feld was very, very lucky that it was Heidi Roizen in the room and not someone less forgiving when he said, "well if you need a dick to hold you can borrow mine anytime"?

She indicates that they knew each other. So I suspect that it had nothing to do with luck that he addressed her; it might have been precisely because it was someone like her, that he said that.

Re: It's Different for Girls

#113

Post by ElComradio »

jawns wrote: post #6

I think the big takeaway here, not just for women but for anyone in the workplace who feels uncomfortable with or offended by something someone else has said, is to consider the intent. Sometimes somebody says something offensive, and they don't even know they're being offensive. And in those cases, you can take them aside, explain to them why it's offended you, and hopefully they'll say, "Oh, dreadfully sorry, I did…

Where is it writ that a person's right to not endure offensive speech trumps another person's right to express themselves? Of course I would opine that a person being needlessly offensive is a jerk but where would I get off insisting she has to change her behavior to suit my tastes?

Re: It's Different for Girls

#114

Post by jquery »

news_to_me wrote: post #5

Lack of diversity in the tech industry truly saddens me. I love technology, and I want to encourage everyone else to discover how magical it is. It's a tragedy that the industry can be so hostile to some, for apparently no reason. But as a white male, I feel powerless to do anything. I can't speak for women, or for other races, or really for anyone else. I want to help fix this, but where do I begin?

Have you worked in other industries? Most of them don't hold a candle to tech when it comes to diversity. It's slightly lacking in a few visible areas, but beyond that it is truly one of the most diverse industries in the world. My coworkers are from all over the world, with a huge variety of backgrounds. Get to know them. If you truly work in a mono-culture, that's not the fault of tech, that's an issue with your hiring manager(s).

Re: It's Different for Girls

#115

Post by Dewie »

jdp23 wrote: post #64
gfodor wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but I find Shanley's approach to framing this issue completely the opposite of the OP here. The OP sees the good in good men and lifts them up. The closing point about the joke she shared with her colleagues underlines it: there are people who are unable to laugh off a "dick in your hand" joke regardless of context and who it comes from. Not because of a lack of sense of humor, but because any such joke will b…

I've shown Shanley's post to quite a few women in technology (including some diversity experts) and they all think her concrete suggestions are excellent. [As do I.] So I strongly suggest any guys who really want to help read it and act on the suggestions even if they would prefer a different framing. And specifically, which of her points do you disagree with? Are you saying that men don't need to work with each othe…

> Are you saying that men don't need to work with each other on their sexism?

That feels like a loaded question.

Re: It's Different for Girls

#116

Post by typon »

vezzy-fnord wrote: post #89
calibraxis wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use Shanley's work, and it's effective as hell. As a man, "What about the menz!?" is of zero interest to me. I can buy all the kleenexes to wipe my tears with the money boost I get from male supremacy. Obviously Shanley is unpopular among dudebros. If she weren't (and god forbid hit the top of HN) it's a sign she's doing something wrong.

Your last sentence seems to imply HN is full of "dudebros," when this thread largely shows quite the opposite.

Really? Are you reading the same thread as me? Look at the current top comment, which says that the "big takeaway" from this post has nothing to do with gender.

Re: It's Different for Girls

#117

Post by enraged_camel »

I have an ex-coworker who is a really attractive girl, and she used to tell me lots of stories like this about places she had worked at previously. Vice presidents calling her to their room and offering her promotions if only she would give them weekly blowjobs, prospective customers turning away from million-dollar deals at the last minute after she refused to sleep with them, etc.

The really sad thing about is that the vast majority of guys I talk to about this topic are simply not aware that women, especially attractive women, go through stuff like this all the time. So when they hear women complaining about discrimination, harassment, glass ceilings, and so on, they think those women are simply "being bitchy." Which simply perpetuates and intensifies the status quo.

Re: It's Different for Girls

#118

Post by Chronic26 »

dang wrote: post #2

This is a good, substantive article that draws on long experience. Commenters: before posting, please ensure that your comments are both substantive and civil. You should always do that on HN, but for obvious reasons, this topic requires a reminder.

Please tell me why this topic deserves more "care" than others posted on HN.

Re: It's Different for Girls

#119

Post by mindslight »

dang wrote: post #42
Swizec wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd be surprised by how deep a connection you can form with somebody through ribbing.

Would you please stop posting off-topic, low-substance comments to this thread?

I don't think that's really a fair categorization of the specific comment you've responded to (especially given its parent). Did you perhaps interpret "ribbing" as a sexual reference, rather than meaning "good-natured teasing" ? I do agree that https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7688033 is quite low-substance, and think it would be better to call it out instead.

Re: It's Different for Girls

#120

Post by SnakeDoc »

jawns wrote: post #6

I think the big takeaway here, not just for women but for anyone in the workplace who feels uncomfortable with or offended by something someone else has said, is to consider the intent. Sometimes somebody says something offensive, and they don't even know they're being offensive. And in those cases, you can take them aside, explain to them why it's offended you, and hopefully they'll say, "Oh, dreadfully sorry, I did…

How about we all just treat people like people. It doesn't matter if you are a man or woman, your respect in the community should be based on merit. There are plenty of terrible male executives, and there are also plenty of terrible female executives.

I'll probably get downvotes for this... but the one thing that annoys me is when someone plays one of the "cards", be it sexism, racism, etc. I've been around long enough to feel if you play a "card", then you have no merit (or just lost it all).

I may be in the minority, but in the business roles I've filled over the years, I've always had complete disregard to an employee's gender or skin color... it's irrelevant, if you are the best fit for the job/project, then you're the best fit. Plain and simple.

On the flip-side, employees should understand that just because they feel they are more qualified for a task, but were not rewarded with it... it does not instantly mean they were discriminated against -- usually the contrary. (Very few people are bigots, yet, the few ruin the bunch so-to-speak).

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