It's Different for Girls • Hacker News Board

Re: It's Different for Girls

#271

Post by abracar » Sat, May 03, 2014, 2:39 AM UTC

dang wrote: post #204

_tlf7 wrote: post #189

I'm a woman who is new to hacker news. I've been told I have to be on this thing if I ever want to apply for YC. I don't know if I'll ever do that but I don't want to ruin that opportunity. I've been reading through all these comments and a lot of them make me sick to my stomach. Articles that surround women in the work force interest me because my startup is in this space, but at what cost of my sanity do I have to…

I'm very sorry. Many of these comments have made me sick to my stomach, too. And also ashamed. (I'm one of the moderators of HN.) You don't have to be active on HN to apply for YC. There's a technical requirement to have an account, just because YC's software systems were built that way, but there's definitely no requirement beyond that. I hope you'll participate, but if this has been your introduction to the "commun…

Thanks for saying that. Still, it may not be how applicants see it. For instance my take from PG's "How to apply" (http://ycombinator.com/howtoapply.html) was that posting here could definitely be a plus — and that's one of the reasons why your role is so important. I know sama mentioned improving the quality of HN comments as part of the roadmap for YC to get to fund more women and I couldn't agree more.

Re: It's Different for Girls

#272

Post by mkempe » Sat, May 03, 2014, 2:40 AM UTC

mkempe wrote: post #174

Walking away silently is not the appropriate response. Tolerating a colleague's obscene language isn't either. In both cases, the outcome is that the perpetrator is going to repeat the same offensive behaviour. People who are offensive should be shunned and told why they are shunned. If they are borderline criminal, others should be told about them. If they are criminal, government should be involved. Being afraid of…

To those who downvoted my comment without argument: what I said is outrageous? unacceptable? men who physically assault women or treat them as purely sexual objects should be tolerated? am I missing something?

Re: It's Different for Girls

#273

Post by JDDunn9 » Sat, May 03, 2014, 2:41 AM UTC

Perhaps if we legalized prostitution it would decrease incidents like this. We know that as pornography consumption increases, violent sex crimes decrease. It's plausible that giving people a legal outlet would make them less likely to sexually harass others. Then it shifts the costs to the men rather than on the women of society.

Re: It's Different for Girls

#274

Post by abracar » Sat, May 03, 2014, 2:45 AM UTC

enraged_camel wrote: post #117

I have an ex-coworker who is a really attractive girl, and she used to tell me lots of stories like this about places she had worked at previously. Vice presidents calling her to their room and offering her promotions if only she would give them weekly blowjobs, prospective customers turning away from million-dollar deals at the last minute after she refused to sleep with them, etc. The really sad thing about is that…

I also liked how Heidi Roizen tried not to extrapolate on her own experience now that she is a VC. When you get older, more assertive and less of a 'target', it's too easy to forget what younger women might encounter. [edit: grammar]

Re: It's Different for Girls

#275

Post by ben0x539 » Sat, May 03, 2014, 2:52 AM UTC

aroch wrote: post #86

webmaven wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. If you're speaking from able-bodied, neurotypical, straight, cis, white, male privilege, your opinion on how hurtful 'trolling' is to people who don't share your privilege carries no weight.

When did HN devolve into the insipid land of Tumblr SJW? It takes some mighty mental gymnastics to convince yourself that only a black, trans, gay, crippled, ADHD person is allowed to offer opinions

You don't need to invoke the strawman of Tumblr to conceptualize that at a first-order guess the dreadful SJW (what a terrible insult!) who's been coping with racism/sexism/homophobia/ableism for most of their life has a more insightful perspective on those issues then some dude who only reads about discrimination as something that happens to other people.

Re: It's Different for Girls

#276

Post by judk » Sat, May 03, 2014, 2:53 AM UTC

vacri wrote: post #251

pencilcode wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And/or they simply want to avoid a direct confrontation, which might happen when a man is present, but not when the woman is alone. This just happened to me today, biking and of course i heard some rude comments. Really wanted to tell them to fuck off but then I would engage, they might respond, etc, and my biking zen would be even more disturbed.

It's really not "that guy might stop me". It's "they're probably a couple, what's the point". The default assumption is that a mixed-gender pair of people around the same age is a couple. I've been out wandering with female platonic friends plenty of times, only to have people assume we're a romantic pair.

So you think a woman walking with her father would get catcalled like a woman alone?

Re: It's Different for Girls

#277

Post by mherkender » Sat, May 03, 2014, 2:53 AM UTC

ProAm wrote: post #24

Not that it ties directly to this article but Ive always found the quote "Judge people by their intentions, not by their actions" to help me quite a bit in the professional world. People can often be frustrating, counter-productive, or as in the case of this article sexist, but sometimes they don't mean to be. When you have to deal with others try and look at what they were intending to do not necessarily the results…

I sorta disagree, actions are what really matter. I think it's good to cut people slack and avoid grudges/judgement in general, but how are we supposed to deal with society-level problems if each example of the problem can be written off as a well-intentioned mistake?

Re: It's Different for Girls

#278

Post by alukima » Sat, May 03, 2014, 2:57 AM UTC

obvious_throw wrote: post #241

alukima wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously? What do you think is more likely to happen if the woman submits?- 1. She gets a promotion she doesn't totally doesn't deserve because she submitted to sexual harassment by her her boss at work. She's happy about this. 2. She submits to sexual harassment because she is afraid she'll lose her job if she doesn't. She feels dirty and exploited. And this is unfair to men how? Because they don't have to put up w…

#3: She files suit, and wins, because the legal climate surrounding harassment cases is overwhelmingly in her favor and she knows it. I can't take claims of the above seriously in the US, because women are 100% legally protected from professional retribution when declining said "deals". I can't speak to outside the US, but here, the protections are vast and absolute. It's not 1913 anymore, any anybody who claims othe…

And then she can never work again. Most settlements pay out less than $100,000, not nearly enough to live off. Not worth being blacklisted from future employment because the guys in charge think women need to "lighten up".

Re: It's Different for Girls

#279

Post by vii » Sat, May 03, 2014, 2:58 AM UTC

Articles like this just reinforce stereotypes (women as victims) without recognising the reality that men can also be victims (of male or female abusers). This makes it even harder for men who are victimized to come forward.

There are plenty of studies which show that men are very unlikely to report sexual assault -- for example, recently http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2014/04/male_...

Sexual harassment is an important issue; but it affects both genders. Starting out with examples of unwelcome sexual touching in the workplace and saying "it's different for girls" drags the debate back twenty years.

I'm a man and I've faced unwelcome touching in the workplace and I'm sure I'm not exceptional.

Re: It's Different for Girls

#280

Post by judk » Sat, May 03, 2014, 2:59 AM UTC

Castlereagh wrote: post #257

enraged_camel wrote: post #117

I have an ex-coworker who is a really attractive girl, and she used to tell me lots of stories like this about places she had worked at previously. Vice presidents calling her to their room and offering her promotions if only she would give them weekly blowjobs, prospective customers turning away from million-dollar deals at the last minute after she refused to sleep with them, etc. The really sad thing about is that…

There's a counter-point to this that is likely to be unpopular, but it's deeply rooted in human biology and isn't going to go away any time soon. Attractive young women may have difficulty getting people to take them seriously, and have to deal with things like frequent unwanted sexual advances, but they have no trouble getting laid . Attractive young women have easy, practically unlimited access to sex (if they so d…

We all want what we can't have. A woman may be able to get sex, but not a husband who will stuck around for years.

This often settles down around age 30 when a woman no longer youthful settles down with a nerdy man.