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Caloric restriction reduces age-related and all-cause mortality in rhesus monkeys

nature.com

71–80 of 88 posts

Re: Caloric restriction reduces age-related and all-cause mortality in rhesus monkeys

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Girls born since 2000 in the developed world are more likely than not to reach the age of 100, with boys likely to enjoy lifespans almost as long. The article "The Biodemography of Human Ageing" by James Vaupel,[2] originally published in the journal Nature in 2010, is a good current reference on the subject. You or someone else presented this highly speculative claim as fact a long time ago on HN. I've tried to fi…

(Thank you for your concern.) How would one prove this claim wrong? There is signal in current mortality and morbidity statistics about how long the individuals now alive will last before they die off. Is anyone interpreting this signal from official medical reports any differently from Vaupel and Christensen? Both Vaupel and Christensen are very well respected demographers (as Vaupel's publication in Nature should a…

[deleted]

Re: Caloric restriction reduces age-related and all-cause mortality in rhesus monkeys

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Thank you for your concern.) How would one prove this claim wrong? There is signal in current mortality and morbidity statistics about how long the individuals now alive will last before they die off. Is anyone interpreting this signal from official medical reports any differently from Vaupel and Christensen? Both Vaupel and Christensen are very well respected demographers (as Vaupel's publication in Nature should a…

All fields are populated with multiple experts. The opinion of those experts on some issues will be broadly in agreement, and on other issues they will have a wide range. Finding one expert who presents the conditional claim of another expert as unconditional , and (you) then asserting this claim as accepted fact is highly misleading. This is especially true when that unconditional claim is almost certain to be dispu…

I conjecture that almost all those experts would reply "no"

Have you asked even one? Have you asked any experts at all? This is what is so puzzling to me about this line of questioning--is the question actually prompted by acquaintance with the subject, or is it of a piece with doubting any other scientific claim? What if the projection is correct, even though you have trouble believing it? I have very little trouble believing the projection, having a mother born in the 1930s who has passed her eighty-first birthday, and having an aunt (her older sister) born in the 1920s who has passed her ninety-fourth birthday. Plenty of people from much earlier birth cohorts are already living into extended old age, so what is so daring about a prediction that anyone who meets established long-term patterns of life expectancy will live into an era with more progress in disease prevention and treatment?

(In short, why have you cited no evidence whatever on this point?)

(1) the fact that the mortality rates at elderly ages has leveled off for many decades in developing countries and (2) that almost all the increases in life expectancy comes from reducing infant mortality and the spread of infectious diseases.

That dual statement suggests you have not looked carefully at the link in my original footnote 4

http://www.nature.com/scientificamerican/journal/v307/n3/box...

(Nature's repost of a chart originally available at the Scientific American website, but a dead link there now), in which it is shown that life expectancy has been increasing steadily at ALL ages, including old ages. You really need to read up more on this, or it's hard for anyone to discuss these issues with you here. You are very careful to speak factually on other issues here on Hacker News, so this is taking me a bit by surprise. Do you know of any experts in this domain at all? Whose writings do you recommend?

Re: Caloric restriction reduces age-related and all-cause mortality in rhesus monkeys

#73

People are mentioning caloric restriction not being worth it for humans because of quality of life vs length of life. However one thought that I find interesting, is that for our generation, living just two or three extra years could potentially make a huge difference. If you subscribe to the idea of a coming technological singularity, or even to the idea that we're a few decades away from SENS escape velocity, you'd…

Might be. I think the quality of life issues are overstated, but I'm an ectomorph so I can change my food intake on a whim. Being hungry isn't a distraction to me unless I'm very busy physically.

  > I'm an ectomorph
As in ecto|meso|endo-morph? I thought that the scientific community put that idea in the trashcan.

Re: Caloric restriction reduces age-related and all-cause mortality in rhesus monkeys

#74
According to the Nature Comms Open Access guidelines somebody paid $4,800 for this article to be published under a BY-NC-SA license. In general who ends up paying, the authors or the authors' respective institutions?

Open Access fees:[^1]

  (CC BY)    (CC BY-NC-SA)   Region
  -------------------------------------------------
  $5,200     $4,800          (The Americas)
  €3,700     €3,425          (Europe)
  ¥661,500   ¥612,150        (Japan)
  RMB33,100  RMB30,600       (China)
  £3,150     £2,915          (UK and Rest of World)
[^1]: http://www.nature.com/ncomms/open_access/index.html

Re: Caloric restriction reduces age-related and all-cause mortality in rhesus monkeys

#75

> Received 12 October 2013 Accepted 05 March 2014 Published 01 April 2014 Am I the only one who finds this crazy? It takes 6 months from submission date till publication! The peer review process should move faster and become modernized. I undrestand, you want to be published on prestigious journals, but Nature and others can modernize to publish more. You can argue, we lost 6 months or half a year of progress because…

You misspelled "understand" in a comment criticizing the review process. If this was irony, I must say your trolling is sublime. However if this was an error I think you might want to rethink your position. I have no problem waiting 6 months or a year for peer reviewed publications.

Re: Caloric restriction reduces age-related and all-cause mortality in rhesus monkeys

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just a simple projection, it's not meant to be taken so seriously. I expect that it's extremely conservative. We are currently in the dark ages of medicine where we just shoot people up with random chemicals and see what happens. There is a lot of room for improvement. Not to mention the singularity.

Exactly. We are simply molecular machines, and we can and will become masters of our molecular destiny, and I would be happy to make a Simon–Ehrlich type wager with anyone, executed by smart crypto-contract, that the average lifespan of a Female born in 2000 will be > than 100. I would say that my heir(s) will collect the winnings, but I fully expect medical progress will let me outpace death for quite some time. "An…

I would take that bet and not solely because you failed to exclude third world countries. I would probably hesitate on "in 2050, a 50 year old women has, on average, another 50 years of life" and definitely pass on "in 2075, a 75 year old women has, on average, another 25 years of life."

Re: Caloric restriction reduces age-related and all-cause mortality in rhesus monkeys

#77

What's interesting about human all-cause mortality trends is that human beings in the developed countries have been gaining three months of lifespan for every year that they live (sometimes described as "six hours each day").[1] Girls born since 2000 in the developed world are more likely than not to reach the age of 100, with boys likely to enjoy lifespans almost as long. The article "The Biodemography of Human Agei…

Re: mildly overweight having better mortality outcomes, see this recent study that was designed to remove the confounding factors of smoking and illness-induced weight loss, and then found excess weight does indeed adversely impact mortality (the study was limited by self-reported weight):

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2014/04/uncovering-tru...

Re: Caloric restriction reduces age-related and all-cause mortality in rhesus monkeys

#78

So if you don't eat much you may live longer. It will certainly FEEL longer.

To add another perspective to this. If we assume that after a period of adaption eating less is just as much of a joy as eating a bit too much from time to time, there are still other factors.

Most of them are a product of vanity, but they still shape our culture.

How would I look if I reduce calories? I would lose a substantial amount of muscle mass. I would be weaker. I could not recover from endurance and strength work as fast as I'm used to.

If we throw all reasonable studies into a bucket and have them guide our lives, what would happen?

I wouldn't be tan. I wouldn't grow as large because small people supposedly live longer (though this is of course not something we can influence yet). I would have a very low muscle tonus as well as mass and only sufficient muscular endurance and size to do whatever I have to do (which is very little compared to a blacksmith in 1407). I would share a grey substance (heck, let's keep the name soylent) with my date that has everything I need to live. I have no car to reduce my carbon footprint. I will avoid the sun in general due to my skin color which is very prone to cancer (thankfully my children will be genetically altered). I will gladly try to avoid talking about any of this because saying "Don't you think beeing vegan is awesome?" will lead to an imaginary bullet flying in my general direction.

Let's have a vote of how many women find this lifestyle that will carry me into my 100s so mind-boggling attractive while I'm still in my 20s.

Re: Caloric restriction reduces age-related and all-cause mortality in rhesus monkeys

#79
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Might be. I think the quality of life issues are overstated, but I'm an ectomorph so I can change my food intake on a whim. Being hungry isn't a distraction to me unless I'm very busy physically.

> I'm an ectomorph As in ecto|meso|endo-morph? I thought that the scientific community put that idea in the trashcan.

I'm just using it to tell you what I look like.

Re: Caloric restriction reduces age-related and all-cause mortality in rhesus monkeys

#80
post #74

According to the Nature Comms Open Access guidelines somebody paid $4,800 for this article to be published under a BY-NC-SA license. In general who ends up paying, the authors or the authors' respective institutions? Open Access fees:[^1] (CC BY) (CC BY-NC-SA) Region ------------------------------------------------- $5,200 $4,800 (The Americas) €3,700 €3,425 (Europe) ¥661,500 ¥612,150 (Japan) RMB33,100 RMB30,600 (Chi…

Typically the institutions, although I can't say specifically who paid in this instance.

This is an interesting point and I'll raise it at work: should the sponsor of an article be formally noted, along with the particulars of it's peer review, license, etc?

Also, a shameless plug: http://www.ubiquitypress.com/publish because OA isn't an expensive proposition, it just depends how it is handled and by whom.

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