Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

blog.mozilla.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

781–790 of 1001 posts

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#781

Post by bronson »

smsm42 wrote: post #759
bronson wrote: post #750

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Um, the project would not give gun or marijuana benefits to its employees. Yes, government-sponsored birth control is a hot issue and many CEOs are having a hard time reconciling it. And, yes some people have quit over it. So, yes, it's similar. Being pro-diversity does not mean being morally obligated to accept racism or hate-induced views. That's pretzel logic.

The project also doesn't give gay marriage benefits, so what's the difference? If the gay marriage ever is recognized by California or on federal level, the benefits would be automatically equalized. I'm not sure if it's possible to do that before the law is set in this regard (may be some accounting/tax issues with just giving benefits to people that the law considers strangers). >>> Being pro-diversity does not mea…

Yes, the project does. Quote: "Mozilla offers the best benefits I have ever had and goes out of its way to offer benefits to its employees in same-sex marriages or domestic partnerships on par with those in heterosexual marriages."

The bare minimum compliance with current law is no way run a company. Great companies do more for their employees than the law requires.

I don't see anyone (other than idiot internet trolls) wanting his life ruined. All I see are some pretty compelling arguments for some difficulties he will face as a CEO and a lot of anguish that this had to happen at all.

If he'd just shown some empathy in that CNet interview, I wonder if things would have gone differently? It read like an engineer's response, not like a CEO. Alas.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#782

Post by [deleted] »

dopamean wrote: post #131
DangerousPie wrote: post #45

I am a strong supporter of gay marriage, but I have to say that I find this very unfortunate and worrying. Apparently many Mozilla supporters seem to think it is okay to bully a qualified person out of his job only for his political views, even if they had absolutely no effect on his qualification or his actions on the job. I can't help but feel like this campaign has done a lot more harm to him than his $1000 donati…

I generally agree with you but I think the problem here is that being against gay marriage is more than just a "political view." Being for low taxes is a political view. Being for smaller government is a political view. Believing a certain group of people don't deserve to live their lives like other simply because of who they love is not a political view. It reads as extremely hateful and that makes people uncomforta…

[deleted]

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#783

Post by marknutter »

quaunaut wrote: post #719
facepalm wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has he ever said anything against gays? Being opposed to gay marriage is not the same as being opposed to gays.

Yes it is. Lets not make useless differences here, it is. To think there isn't is somehow thinking someone having fewer rights than you do is still legally equal to you.

Does being against polygamist marriages make you against polygamists?

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#784

Post by wpietri »

sp332 wrote: post #462
SimHacker wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your idea that human rights are about social consensus is really dangerous. The argument that homosexuality is acceptable is not based on cultural attitudes, it's based on science and ethics. Why don't you let Brendan Eich play the victim and feel sorry for himself, he doesn't need any of your help.

Not to hijack the thread, but... science? How?

Not sure exactly what the other fellow is talking about, but science is definitely relevant here. If you read the recent decision in the Michigan Marriage Amendment case:

http://www.freep.com/assets/freep/pdf/C4220110321.PDF

The basic question was: is there a rational basis to deny gay couples the same right straight couples have? One of the offered reasons for preventing gay marriage is that it was worse for children. That being a factual question, social science research was relevant. The short version: the judge, like other judges, found that the evidence offered favored the "gay people are just fine" side of things.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#785

Post by ceejayoz »

twoodfin wrote: post #496
ceejayoz wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Left-leaning folks are going to be gun-shy about third parties for a while. The memories of 2000 with Gore/Nader in Florida aren't fading all that fast.

So there's no view a Democrat could express that wouldn't disqualify him in left-leaning folks' minds? That would be depressing. Winning isn't everything.

Winning isn't everything, no. A "loyal opposition" is an important thing - I'd love to see Eisenhower/Goldwater Republicans balancing out the Democrats.

Handing over the reins to the crazies, though, is significantly dangerous, and all candidates are going to have downsides. Obama's been wrong on gay marriage in the past, but it's quite clear that his administration has been far better for gay rights than a Republican one would have been.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#786

Post by rbanffy »

forgottenpass wrote: post #560
rbanffy wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't work for Mozilla.

We don't know that. He didn't lie. For all we know lying about your beliefs works fine at Mozilla.

Don't know about you, but I applaud any organization that can hold itself to standards as high as theirs.

As I understand, this position is a rather unpopular one.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#787

Post by wpietri »

uchi wrote: post #704
danpalmer wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think 'integrity' in the face of an opinion that is becoming more and more unacceptable to hold in our culture is a good thing. Changing your views, and admitting you were wrong is the best thing you can do.

>Changing your views, and admitting you were wrong is the best thing you can do. Dude, what? What if he doesn't feel it was wrong? Furthermore, who the fuck cares what he believes and what he spends his money on in his own PRIVATE time? That's COMPLETELY outside of his job at the Mozilla foundation which he's been working at just fine for 15 fucking years. Your comment genuinely irritates me.

If the view is that some of the people you will soon be boss of are not deserving of the same civil rights as everybody else, then that is entirely relevant to his job. Because those employees would have a reasonable fear of discriminatory treatment.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#788

Post by nsxwolf »

mkr-hn wrote: post #279
andrewpi wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So Barack Obama, the President of the US, was against gay marriage in 2008; I'm confused as to why he gets a pass here, but the head of Mozilla doesn't?

He didn't get a pass. A lot of people made a huge issue out of it from the day he announced to the day he changed his views. He also didn't stand in the way of the advancing equality movement while he mulled it over. Brendan Eich did, to the tune of $1000.

They made such a huge issue out of it they elected him president.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#789

Post by [deleted] »

dopamean wrote: post #131
DangerousPie wrote: post #45

I am a strong supporter of gay marriage, but I have to say that I find this very unfortunate and worrying. Apparently many Mozilla supporters seem to think it is okay to bully a qualified person out of his job only for his political views, even if they had absolutely no effect on his qualification or his actions on the job. I can't help but feel like this campaign has done a lot more harm to him than his $1000 donati…

I generally agree with you but I think the problem here is that being against gay marriage is more than just a "political view." Being for low taxes is a political view. Being for smaller government is a political view. Believing a certain group of people don't deserve to live their lives like other simply because of who they love is not a political view. It reads as extremely hateful and that makes people uncomforta…

[deleted]

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#790

Post by ralfd »

albedoa wrote: post #579
xaa wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I said, I disagree with my father-in-law's views, just like I disagree with Eich's views. I have tried to talk my father-in-law out of them. But I certainly don't think employment should be conditional on having the right set of beliefs. That way lies madness -- it's the very reason we forbid employment discrimination based on religion, for example. How can you possibly determine which privately-held beliefs are "…

> How can you possibly determine which privately-held beliefs are "too bad" for you to deserve being employed. First, it wasn't his beliefs that lost him his employment — it was his actions. Second, while it's not always as clear, donating money to oppress a group in 2008 is an objectively abhorrent act. You know it when you see it.

But it passed in 2008. That was democracy. With your line of reasoning it would be right to fire a majority of California.
Post reply on HN