Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO • Hacker News Board

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#321

Post by bashinator » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:55 PM UTC

return0 wrote: post #114

DangerousPie wrote: post #45

I am a strong supporter of gay marriage, but I have to say that I find this very unfortunate and worrying. Apparently many Mozilla supporters seem to think it is okay to bully a qualified person out of his job only for his political views, even if they had absolutely no effect on his qualification or his actions on the job. I can't help but feel like this campaign has done a lot more harm to him than his $1000 donati…

On top of it, the resignation shines a bad light on gay-marriage activism, nobody likes a bully.

So registering an opinion about the actions of a public figure is bullying, but making a monetary donation to restrict the rights of a minority is not?

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#322

Post by viggity » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:55 PM UTC

matthewmacleod wrote: post #225

benjohnson wrote: post #29

"our large, global, and diverse community is what makes Mozilla special" Apparently diversity is narrower today.

Diversity as a concept cannot legitimately be defined to include intolerance as an attribute to be protected. Swap out "anti-gay-marriage" for "racist" or "anti-semitic" – it would be difficult to argue that calling for the resignation of an active campaigner against racial equality was "anti-diversity"; the same applies here.

I was against prop 8, it was stupid, but people act like it was going to throw members of the LGBT in prison or death camps or something.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#323

Post by camus2 » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:55 PM UTC

cousin_it wrote: post #244

adamwong246 wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Freedom of Speech" does not mean "Freedom from the Consequences of your Speech."

No, freedom of speech means exactly that people shouldn't be punished for speech. What else could it possibly mean?

Freedom of speech only means the government cant supress your speech.

There is no freedom of speech when it comes to the corporate envirronment, and even less when you are a public figure of a business.

So this is not a freedom of speech issue. Eich is free to say whatever he wants, and Mozilla is free to decide wether what Eich says is compatible with its CEO position or not.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#324

Post by mindslight » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:56 PM UTC

zheng wrote: post #294

nostrademons wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This line of reasoning is very troubling to me, because 20 years ago it was pretty much unacceptable in the U.S. to hold the opinion that gays were entitled to full legal rights, let alone the ability to marry. That changed only because some very courageous people stuck their neck out, weathered all the flack and negative personal repercussions towards themselves, and gradually made the point of "Why not?" I fully su…

Wish I had more upvotes for this. It's surprising how intolerant people become once their opinion becomes the socially acceptable one.

Why is it surprising? This is exactly how oppressive mobs work.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#325

Post by stefantalpalaru » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:56 PM UTC

Borogove wrote: post #242

stefantalpalaru wrote: post #33

This is an example of what a hate-driven vocal minority can do. It's scary.

Tell that to Matthew Shepard.

It is irrational to associate a homophobic hate crime with a donation to gay marriage opponents. But that's OK. As long as you can raise a fuss about it you can completely ignore reason and pressure people into resigning.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#326

Post by Dirlewanger » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:56 PM UTC

username223 wrote: post #236

stefantalpalaru wrote: post #33

This is an example of what a hate-driven vocal minority can do. It's scary.

What, getting ousted as CEO for unrepentant bigotry? I'm not that scared.

And this "unrepentant bigotry" directly affected how many peoples' lives? No one's?

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#327

Post by blisterpeanuts » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:56 PM UTC

adamwong246 wrote: post #184

daveqr wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was the opposite of a win for freedom of speech.

"Freedom of Speech" does not mean "Freedom from the Consequences of your Speech."

Actually, it does. You can't be fired from your job for expressing a political view in the state of California.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#328

Post by jcromartie » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:56 PM UTC

nostrademons wrote: post #199

danpalmer wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think 'integrity' in the face of an opinion that is becoming more and more unacceptable to hold in our culture is a good thing. Changing your views, and admitting you were wrong is the best thing you can do.

This line of reasoning is very troubling to me, because 20 years ago it was pretty much unacceptable in the U.S. to hold the opinion that gays were entitled to full legal rights, let alone the ability to marry. That changed only because some very courageous people stuck their neck out, weathered all the flack and negative personal repercussions towards themselves, and gradually made the point of "Why not?" I fully su…

You could also say that it was pretty much unacceptable to support women's suffrage or be against slavery in certain times and places.

But, the thing is, these ideas have trajectories. The idea that slavery is wrong or women should have the right to vote never got less accepted over time.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#329

Post by wyclif » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:56 PM UTC

matthewmacleod wrote: post #248

wyclif wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eich didn't make that donation yesterday, you know. But I agree. He made a small donation to a political cause. Are we going to start ritually sacrificing people who don't line up with our personal causes and opinions? I think this sets a draconian precedent. If this is where the culture in the Valley is headed, I'm incredibly glad I'm not a part of it.

Are we going to start ritually sacrificing people who don't line up with our personal causes and opinions? No - we are hopefully going to continue objecting to the appointment of people whose personal views are incompatible with the values of the organisation they are supposed to represent. That's totally legitimate, and I absolutely fail to see what is wrong with doing so.

A software developer and friend of mine wrote this just now, upon hearing the news. I thought I'd share it here because I thought it was apt:

Mozilla believes both in equality and freedom of speech. Equality is necessary for meaningful speech. And you need free speech to fight for equality. Figuring out how to stand for both at the same time can be hard. You also need free speech to discuss what equality means, but apparently that is no longer possible; our culture-makers have now decided there is a univocal conception of equality that must be imposed on everyone.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#330

Post by scottu1 » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:56 PM UTC

I wish he'd just weathered it out. If there's a side of this that thinks this is pretty ridiculous, I'm on that side.

I'm sure there are a million things that my CEO believes that I don't agree with, but the only thing that matters is that he takes the company in the right direction.

Who is there better to lead Mozilla than Eich? The next CEO will be the second best choice or worse. I wonder who would want to step into the middle of this.