Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO • Hacker News Board

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#231

Post by Spooky23 » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:41 PM UTC

dopamean wrote: post #131

DangerousPie wrote: post #45

I am a strong supporter of gay marriage, but I have to say that I find this very unfortunate and worrying. Apparently many Mozilla supporters seem to think it is okay to bully a qualified person out of his job only for his political views, even if they had absolutely no effect on his qualification or his actions on the job. I can't help but feel like this campaign has done a lot more harm to him than his $1000 donati…

I generally agree with you but I think the problem here is that being against gay marriage is more than just a "political view." Being for low taxes is a political view. Being for smaller government is a political view. Believing a certain group of people don't deserve to live their lives like other simply because of who they love is not a political view. It reads as extremely hateful and that makes people uncomforta…

It's also a religious view for many. For someone who belongs to a religious community, publicly renouncing canon has serious impacts on you and your family's social standing. Many people are able to balance their personal beliefs against their professional obligations. Is a defense attorney who defends a rapist at trial assumed to not be capable of working with women?

People should be judged by actions, not thought. If he was mistreating gay employees, that's a totally different matter.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#232

Post by mkr-hn » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:41 PM UTC

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #183

akerl_ wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would have considered him a worse person if he'd done that. I disagree with his opinions on marriage, but he has the right to have those opinions, and to provide support for causes he believes in. I'm not shocked the he is stepping down, or that others in the organization appear to have applied substantial pressure on him to do so, but it makes me sad. Their statements about supporting freedom of speech are hollow:…

Ironically, though, his opinion was supported by the majority in that California election: 7 million to 6.4 million in favor of Prop 8. I guess if they consider any other candidates for CEO from California, they'll have to ask them how they voted.

How can it be a right if it's subject to a majority vote?

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#233

Post by MrZongle2 » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:41 PM UTC

IanDrake wrote: post #42

To me this is a win for freedom of speech and free markets. You're free to express your close minded opinion, but the market is free to reject it and you.

To me this is a win for freedom of speech

How exactly was this a win for Eich's freedom of speech?

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#234

Post by danudey » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:41 PM UTC

Touche wrote: post #95

ZanyProgrammer wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who persecuted Eich? His detractors were merely engaging in their freedom of speech. You know, free market and all that.

It's about being a gracious victor. Yes, Eich was on the wrong side of history when he supported prop 8 those years ago. Yes, those who support gay marriage are "right" and history will show this. But the graceful thing to do when you're right is not to curb-stomp those who were wrong. It's not to rub it in their face. It's not to ruin their lives because they made a mistake. The graceful thing to do when you are rig…

> Yes, those who support gay marriage are "right" and history will show this.

I prefer the term 'equality'. This particular fight is just one example of a large group of people trying to prevent a smaller group of people which they dislike from enjoying the same benefits as the larger group. There are many others, and they're all equally important on principle.

It's not about being gay; it's about being equal no matter who you are or what you do.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#235

Post by jroseattle » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:42 PM UTC

DangerousPie wrote: post #45

I am a strong supporter of gay marriage, but I have to say that I find this very unfortunate and worrying. Apparently many Mozilla supporters seem to think it is okay to bully a qualified person out of his job only for his political views, even if they had absolutely no effect on his qualification or his actions on the job. I can't help but feel like this campaign has done a lot more harm to him than his $1000 donati…

> political views

Labeling one's belief in fundamental inequality among citizenry as a "political view" simply serves to make the argument for inequality sound OK.

It's not OK.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#236

Post by username223 » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:42 PM UTC

stefantalpalaru wrote: post #33

This is an example of what a hate-driven vocal minority can do. It's scary.

What, getting ousted as CEO for unrepentant bigotry? I'm not that scared.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#237

Post by hackinthebochs » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:42 PM UTC

IanDrake wrote: post #42

To me this is a win for freedom of speech and free markets. You're free to express your close minded opinion, but the market is free to reject it and you.

The way I see it, the exact opposite happened. There was no "free market" action that corrected for a bad choice of CEO. It was a minority of people with a large voice who were able to create and control a narrative and thus force a CEO out. This is the exact opposite of "free market".

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#238

Post by blisterpeanuts » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:42 PM UTC

pessimizer wrote: post #173

DangerousPie wrote: post #45

I am a strong supporter of gay marriage, but I have to say that I find this very unfortunate and worrying. Apparently many Mozilla supporters seem to think it is okay to bully a qualified person out of his job only for his political views, even if they had absolutely no effect on his qualification or his actions on the job. I can't help but feel like this campaign has done a lot more harm to him than his $1000 donati…

>even if they had absolutely no effect on his qualification or his actions on the job. There's no evidence of this either way, and the qualifications for being a CEO are nearly orthogonal to the qualifications for being a developer. He's clearly an outstanding developer; though javascript seems the product of a damaged mind, it's the water we all swim in. As a CEO, he chooses the direction of the company and manages…

What evidence is there that he's a "homophobe"?

7 million other Californians also voted for Prop 8. Does that make them all homophobes?

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#239

Post by danudey » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:42 PM UTC

dethstar wrote: post #64

return0 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We didn’t act like you’d expect Mozilla to act. We didn’t move fast enough to engage with people once the controversy started. We’re sorry. We must do better. So Mozilla has to "act" the way some people "expect them to act". There was not even a ballot, poll or evaluation of the man in the position. It was a pretty ridiculous move to avoid bad press. Talk about to sticking to values like meritocracy.

It wasn't just bad press, someone here posted a link to a "biggish" organization in, I think, Australia where they were asking people to boycott Mozilla by not using it's software.

Also, OkCupid called them out on it extremely publicly.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#240

Post by SimHacker » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:42 PM UTC

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #185

danpalmer wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think 'integrity' in the face of an opinion that is becoming more and more unacceptable to hold in our culture is a good thing. Changing your views, and admitting you were wrong is the best thing you can do.

That argument means that, back in the days when homosexuality was culturally wrong, anyone who thought that it was OK should have changed their view to match the culture. That is, your idea that social consensus determines right and wrong is really dangerous. We have historical examples where it proved to be a terrible guide to morality.

Your idea that human rights are about social consensus is really dangerous. The argument that homosexuality is acceptable is not based on cultural attitudes, it's based on science and ethics.

Why don't you let Brendan Eich play the victim and feel sorry for himself, he doesn't need any of your help.